# is there any differences in meaning between the two following sentences: **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 3, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895 "2014-06-03T04:41:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Reza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reza)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/1 "2014-06-03T04:41:26Z")
is there any differences in meaning between the two following sentences: 1- where do you want to go? 2- where do you want to go to? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/2 "2014-06-03T04:45:27Z")
I do not see any difference in the meaning between these two sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/3 "2014-06-03T04:49:13Z")
They’re the same, but the second is a bit more awkward, IMO. I’ve certainly used sentence 2, but the first sounds much cleaner. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/4 "2014-06-03T05:08:33Z")
the second one is ungrammatical ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong, wrong, and horribly wrong ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/5 "2014-06-03T05:10:13Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > the second one is ungrammatical > > ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong, wrong, and horribly wrong Except that it isn’t. Even pretty conservative grammarians are fine with it. Even Fowler, a grammarian’s grammarian considers it a silly superstition. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/6 "2014-06-03T06:10:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Except that it isn’t. Even pretty conservative grammarians are fine with it. Even Fowler, a grammarian’s grammarian considers it a silly superstition. Even if it was considered “ungrammatical”, on the sliding scale of cardinal sins it would be on the “not a grand offense” side. It’s not even syntactically ambiguous, and certainly on the other side of the spectrum from the just plain wrong “green for cabbage I”. As a matter of **style** the second sentence is perhaps a good example of why you should think critically about sentences ending in prepositions before you commit to using them, because it sounds a bit stilted, but that’s about the worst that can be said for it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/7 "2014-06-03T14:47:42Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > As a matter of **style** the second sentence is perhaps a good example of why you should think critically about sentences ending in prepositions before you commit to using them, because it sounds a bit stilted, but that’s about the worst that can be said for it. The main complaint is not the preposition itself, or terminating a sentence with one, but rather that it’s redundant. It’s a similar complaint to the “where…at” construction, as in “Where are you at?” Both “to” in the OP’s sentence and the “at” in the previous sentence can be omitted without loss of meaning or clarity. I personally don’t think it sounds stilted, but, rather, it does sound a little colloquial to me. Here’s the usage note from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/where) > [@](#): > > Where … at (_Where was he at?_) and where … to (_Where is this leading to?_) are often criticized as redundant because neither at nor to adds anything to the meaning of where, and sentences like the preceding ones are perfectly clear and standard without the final at or to. This criticism does not apply to where … from, which is fully standard: _Where does the money come from?_ The constructions where … at and where … to occur in the speech of educated people but are rare in formal speech and edited writing. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/8 "2014-06-03T14:49:29Z")
They mean the same; I use those forms interchangeably. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/9 "2014-06-03T15:05:23Z")
They mean the same thing; the second sounds a little uneducated or non-native. Even if it isn’t strictly ungrammatical, generations have been taught to avoid ending a sentence in a preposition so it doesn’t sound correct. The more common phrasing in NYC (where we do everything as fast as possible) is “where to?” ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/10 "2014-06-03T15:05:41Z")
I would say #2 works because we have the tendency to slide “want to” into one word “wanna” so technically you’re not saying “to” twice. I’m going back to bed. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/11 "2014-06-03T15:24:22Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > the second one is ungrammatical > > ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong, wrong, and horribly wrong This idea that you should not end a sentence with a preposition does not originate in English grammar. It’s from Latin grammar, where prepositions are only added to the front of the object of the preposition. For some reason, in the late 17th/early 18th century, grammarians decided that English was a messy, untidy language, and that Latin was by far the superior, so they decided to impose Latin rules on English. This is also where we get the idea that you should never split an infinitive. Well, in Latin, the infinitive form of the verb is one word. You can’t split it. Whereas in English, the infinitive form is always “to [verb]”. While following these rules can lead to a more elegant expression of an idea, it can just as easily lead to twisted up, inelegant prose. English teacher joke: [spoiler]A young man is on a visit to Harvard and gets lost. He sees a professor emerge from a classroom. “Excuse me, sir,” he says, “would you tell me where the bathroom is at?” The professor draws himself up and sneers. “Young man, at Harvard, we do not end our sentences with prepositions.” “Fine,” the young man replied. “Where’s the bathroom at, asshole?” [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/12 "2014-06-03T15:26:09Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > the second one is ungrammatical > > ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong, wrong, and horribly wrong [Winston Churchill would like a word.](http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/13 "2014-06-03T16:45:33Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > They mean the same thing; the second sounds a little uneducated or non-native. It doesn’t sounds non-native to me at all. Read the last sentence of the usage note. > [@](#): > > Even if it isn’t strictly ungrammatical, generations have been taught to avoid ending a sentence in a preposition so it doesn’t sound correct. I know virtually nobody who still follows this pointless rule. It was a silly superstition and nothing more. Like I said, Fowler, in his Modern English Usage called it a “cherished superstition.” The current edition of Strunk & White is fine with it. Chicago Manual of Style calls it “an unnecessary and pedantic restriction.” [Grammar Girl](http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition) says “nearly all grammarians disagree [that one should not end a sentence with a preposition], at least in some cases.” This is not something from descriptive linguists, this is proscriptive grammarians saying “it’s quite all right,” sometimes emphatically so. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/14 "2014-06-03T16:51:13Z")
While I see no problem in general in using a preposition to end a sentence with, the first of those two sentences still seems more natural to me. I can think of contexts where the second one would make sense, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/15 "2014-06-03T16:53:33Z")
I didn’t say it was ungrammatical or even a question of grammar. Style is normative and ending in a preposition is not common; when it is used, it is thought to be incorrect. From a style point of view that makes it not a preferred construction. The sentence proposed just sounds hickish and backwoods to me. I didn’t say every sentence ending in a preposition sounded that way. In fact I noted in my post that a different sentence ending in preposition “where to?” is a common construction in my part of the US. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/16 "2014-06-03T16:58:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > While I see no problem in general in using a preposition to end a sentence with, the first of those two sentences still seems more natural to me. I can think of contexts where the second one would make sense, though. I would say that the problem with the sentence is ending on the “to” is unnecessary. Whether one is more natural than the other may be a matter of dialect. Both sound equally fine to my ears, although I do also prefer the first one. I suppose you can make an argument, if you really wanted to, that “where to” really _should_ be more proper, because “where” should be static, while “where to” specifies motion from one place to another (see: where/whither/whence.) But that’s not really the case with modern English. I’m not even entirely sure how rigid the distinction was in early modern English, if people always said “Whither are you going” instead of “Where are you going,” or whether the latter would be considered improper. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/17 "2014-06-03T18:07:48Z")
**Reza** , you’ve been told in no uncertain terms “[Do not post such questions again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17385691&postcount=31)”. As has been explained, we don’t do people’s homework for them, and we _definitely_ don’t do it when it’s a commercial venture. Thread closed. * * * **Hal Briston** - MPSIMS Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/18 "2014-06-04T22:18:58Z")
In light of the [changes laid out here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17434187&postcount=62) regarding the “homework” rules, I’m reopening this thread. Have at it! **Hal Briston** - MPSIMS Moderator ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/19 "2014-06-04T23:56:14Z")
I stillIn the second sentence, I infer a previously-established list of options, while the first feels more open ended. I still vote for, “equal in meaning, ending a sentence with a preposition is not always wrong, but here it’s unecessary.” ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895/20 "2014-06-05T00:12:33Z")
They are the same in meaning in every respect. The two forms are dialectical variations. Somewhat related: the So Cal and other dialect expression: Want to come with? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-differences-in-meaning-between-the-two-following-sentences/689895.md?page=2)