# Is there any evidence of a difference in temperment between the races **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892 "2011-05-14T13:13:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/81 "2011-05-17T23:38:19Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > Now if you study Africans in other countries, they tend to commit more violence and crime (suburbs of Paris, Swedish rape statistics etc) but tend to be immigrant groups from cultures where violence is more common (barring African Americans who have a history in the US for several centuries), meaning that it is very difficult to claim that the difference is innate and not cultural - in one area of South Africa, over a third of men had participated in a rape (there was a thread on this a while back) - it would be no surprise if a immigrants from this community were to be responsible for a disproportionate number of rapes - it would not show any racial predisposition. > > So there are two questions I have: > > 1. Is there any evidence that there are differences in temperment between the races? Is there any evidence that one race is more easy-going than another, another more grumpy? etc > > 2. Is there any evidence of varying levels of aggression being innate in the races (keeping in mind that white Britain ravaged a good chunk of the world) when analyzing very large populations, one’s personal observations and experiences hardly count. i’m surprised mods are letting this thread go past page 1. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/82 "2011-05-18T00:03:58Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > when analyzing very large populations, one’s personal observations and experiences hardly count. i’m surprised mods are letting this thread go past page 1. Factual answers have been provided to those questions so far. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/83 "2011-05-18T00:15:18Z")
how factual? because a written piece of work says so? a quote from a “leading authority?” i try to go beyond those. i know from direct experience that i can’t come up with a representative character trait for a people in a big city using the most thorough survey methods you can think of. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/84 "2011-05-18T00:31:12Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > how factual? because a written piece of work says so? a quote from a “leading authority?” i try to go beyond those. i know from direct experience that i can’t come up with a representative character trait for a people in a big city using the most thorough survey methods you can think of. This forum is for factual answers to questions. We’re not really interested in your “direct experience” when dealing with questions of science. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/85 "2011-05-18T00:33:49Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > statement #2 is not as unheard of as you seem to suppose. Neither are statements that the earth is flat. > > Your statement #1 seems to be more of a claim about the meaning of the word “temperament” than about the state of our technology and knowledge is. If you define “temperament” in such a way that to get an answer we need to travel to Andromeda galaxy, then that statement will be 100% right. Or maybe you don’t even bother defining it and just say, no, regardless of what interesting statistical patterns in human behavior or neurobiology are discovered by your opponents, none of that is truly “temperament”. > > Or, to get more realistic, let’s say you will accept measurements of “temperament” from people of your political clique (e.g. measurement of “temperament of evil white rednecks”) but you will not accept any claims about it from the political opposition. That’s not a very legit way to do science, but you can definitely use this strategy to support the inviolability of statement #1. Eh. If you have some data concerning the issue, then bring it. I’m not a biologist, but I am a scientist by training, and I know enough about biology to not be surprised that we don’t have any data on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/86 "2011-05-18T00:35:00Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > how factual? because a written piece of work says so? a quote from a “leading authority?” i try to go beyond those. i know from direct experience that i can’t come up with a representative character trait for a people in a big city using the most thorough survey methods you can think of. Laudenum posed some unestablished background, then asked some questions. His questions have been answered with facts. There are some opinions posted here too, and those have been addressed factually also. Some unsupportable anecdotes were posted, and some contradictory anecdotes were posted in response, demonstrating that the original anecdotes were non-representative, and that anecdotal evidence cannot be used to prove a general hypothesis. As usual there’s a modicum of humor thrown in too, there’s no reason fighting ignorance can’t be entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/87 "2011-05-18T00:37:16Z")
well, seven blind men groping and describing an elephant could each give their own “factual” descriptions. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/88 "2011-05-18T00:46:06Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > well, seven blind men groping and describing an elephant could each give their own “factual” descriptions. Which answers do you have a problem with? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/89 "2011-05-18T00:48:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s quite simple. There are 2 human races: Angry Armenians, and everyone else. Well, yes. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/90 "2011-05-18T00:48:54Z")
basically all anecdotal ones (and we won’t even factor in things like individual bias.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/91 "2011-05-18T01:12:32Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > basically all anecdotal ones (and we won’t even factor in things like individual bias.) Then respond to the specific answers by pointing out that they are anecdotal. There different ways to do that. For instance I could ask you “Are you Armenian”? Then follow it with one of these smiley things 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/92 "2011-05-18T01:20:58Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > basically all anecdotal ones (and we won’t even factor in things like individual bias.) That’s an odd thing to say when you just told us your anecdotes are better than what experts have to say: > [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > how factual? because a written piece of work says so? a quote from a “leading authority?” i try to go beyond those. i know from direct experience that i can’t come up with a representative character trait for a people in a big city using the most thorough survey methods you can think of. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/93 "2011-05-18T01:23:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Then respond to the specific answers by pointing out that they are anecdotal. There different ways to do that. For instance I could ask you “Are you Armenian”? Then follow it with one of these smiley things 😉 thanks for that reminder. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/94 "2011-05-18T01:27:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s an odd thing to say when you just told us your anecdotes are better than what experts have to say: safe, because my anecdote concerns population survey and data gathering; not the OP. that’s one instance wherein an off-topic post is neither bad nor deconstructive. going back, anecdotes are at best cross-sectional at present time context. not that historical ones are useless, they just can’t post and argue here. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/95 "2011-05-18T01:54:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > … > And dogs have breeds… And dogs have fleas. And GQ has trolls, Who come to cajole. DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/96 "2011-05-18T02:08:02Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > safe, because my anecdote concerns population survey and data gathering; not the OP. that’s one instance wherein an off-topic post is neither bad nor deconstructive. > > going back, anecdotes are at best cross-sectional at present time context. not that historical ones are useless, they just can’t post and argue here. I’m not sure if English is your first language or not, but that post make no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/97 "2011-05-18T02:35:24Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > **My question:** > Clearly the concept of race is used in biology a lot. We divide most species into different races, Im particularly thinking of dogs as a good example. > > Why can’t this be applied to homo sapiens? I already explained only three posts above yours why human variation does not lend itself the categorization of subspecies (or races). If you’re not going to read what people post, why bother participating in this thread? Dogs are not a good example at all, because their different forms are breeds created and maintained by artificial selection by humans. They are not in the least comparable to subspecies (or races) that occur in nature. > [@code\_grey](#): > > you must be joking. South America is populated by distinct stable endogamous groups such as “whites”, “Amerindians”, “mestizos”, “mulattos”. These groups often live in their separate regions as the overwhelming local majority, but in some cases the whites blend in with mestizos (see Mexico). Sometimes the regional conflicts between these regions lead to calls for secession of the wealthier whiter regions from the subsidized non-white ones. > > So yeah, some of the above mentioned groups are indeed biracial. Does that negate existence of vast numbers of non biracial people both in South America and elsewhere? You must be joking. Your description doesn’t have much to do with the actual reality of populations living in Latin America. Characterizing biracial groups like mestizos and mulattos (which make up majority or at least a large percentage of the population in most Latin American countries) as “stable endogenous groups” doesn’t make any sense. In any case, while there may be some social barriers to intermarriage, there continues to be a large amount of mixing of all groups, including those of European, African, or Amerindian ancestry are in the majority. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/98 "2011-05-18T02:44:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not sure if English is your first language or not, but that post make\*\*(s)\*\* no sense at all. there, that’s what’s wrong with your english. now what’s wrong with mine? > [@](#): > > safe, because my anecdote concerns population survey and data gathering; not the OP. that’s one instance wherein an off-topic post is neither bad nor deconstructive. > > going back, anecdotes are at best cross-sectional at present time context. not that historical ones are useless, they just can’t post and argue here ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/99 "2011-05-18T02:49:19Z")
I have to admit that I don’t really get the gist either. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892/100 "2011-05-18T02:58:22Z")
the first paragraph says my own use of anecdotes was not in direct reply to the thread question, but rather to qualify so-called “expert findings” and assertions. the second paragraph simply states some (not all) limitations in the use of anecdotal evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-of-a-difference-in-temperment-between-the-races/581892.md?page=6)