# Is there any evidence that R. budd dwyer was really innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687 "2004-01-23T00:49:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/1 "2004-01-23T00:49:42Z")
It is the anniversary of when Pennsylvania state treasurer R. Budd Dwyer committed suicide on live television after being sentenced to 55 years in prison. Is there any evidence to suggest he was innocent? ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/2 "2004-01-23T01:17:47Z")
Correction: He had not yet been sentenced. The sentencing hearing was scheduled for the following day. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/3 "2004-01-23T07:50:05Z")
He did not commit suicide on “live television”. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/4 "2004-01-23T07:56:47Z")
No television or radio station was broadcasting live from Dwyer’s office. Some of Pennsylvania’s television and radio stations broadcast only partial recordings of the event; _one_ TV station ran the entire tape of the suicide. ---
**Author:** ![RumMunkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@RumMunkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RumMunkey)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/5 "2004-01-23T12:19:04Z")
…the tape has become a sick little ‘cult classic’ on the net, too. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/6 "2004-01-23T14:23:24Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > No television or radio station was broadcasting live from Dwyer’s office. Some of Pennsylvania’s television and radio stations broadcast only partial recordings of the event; _one_ TV station ran the entire tape of the suicide. At least _two_ TV stations, just in my viewing area, did so: The NBC and CBS affiliates in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton both ran the tape uncut. The ABC affiliate (WNEP-TV 16) ran the tape only up to the point where Dwyer removed the gun from the envelope. Strangely, they were praised at the time for their “restraint,” which leads me to believe that perhaps other stations in the state also ran the uncut tape. Of course, you’ll never get those stations admitting that now. Only a year after the incident, the NBC affiliate was denying that they’d run the tape, which was somewhat disingenuous as it was a hard thing for their viewers to forget. And I would swear up and down I saw that thing live, although after having looked through the relevant material, I now think that I actually saw a tape on Channel 2, our NBC affiliate, some time after the actual incident. Let’s just say, under the circumstances, you could see how someone could be mistaken. It was easily the sickest thing I’ve ever seen on television. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/7 "2004-01-23T14:36:08Z")
**Walloon** : I think you may have seen this article about Pittsburgh’s WPXI-11 TV: > [@](#): > > During his time at Channel 11, Howell also weathered a labor dispute with studio crews in the ’ 80s. But the biggest botch may have been in 1987, when WPXI aired footage on its noon newscast of state Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer shooting himself during a press conference. > > Howell was out of town on business and heard about the decision to air the suicide unedited afterward. > > “Of course I wish I’d been in town and been able to stop them from airing Budd Dwyer shooting himself,” Howell said. He’s quick to point out the footage ran only once on a low-rated newscast “and yet you can find hundreds of thousands of people who [claim they] saw it.” (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, December 6, 2001) Howell is probably right in saying that it “ran only once” on WPXI. That doesn’t necessarily mean it _didn’t_ run on other stations in other markets. And it wouldn’t have been surprising if they had, after all. Our local paper, the _Williamsport Sun-Gazette_, ran a front-page picture of Dwyer with the gun in his mouth. I think this would be a perfect case for Snopes to figure out. I’d be happy to send in this question to them. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/8 "2004-01-23T14:36:41Z")
yeah I got a few responses but noone even attempted to answer the freaking question wtf¿ ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evidence-that-r-budd-dwyer-was-really-innocent/225687/9 "2004-01-23T15:37:56Z")
Well, there’s “evidence” that he was innocent, framed, etc. Dwyer claimed to be innocent even in his last interview. But all the “evidence” I’ve seen to corroborate his innocence seems to hinge on “Well, PA politics was really corrupt in the 80’s (No! Tell me something I didn’t know!),” lots of “anonymous officials” saying that Dwyer was framed, everybody was out to get him (yeah, him and every other politician in Harrisburg) etc. etc. [This site](http://members.fortunecity.com/budd3/inno.html) puts together a number of the conspiracy theories. [Here’s another site](http://www.flaming-pie.net/~atn/dwyer.html) which strongly argues that Dwyer is innocent. Why? > [@](#): > > My personal belief is that Dwyer was innocent. At this point, I don’t really have anything to base that belief on - it’s just how I feel. Not exactly the most convincing argument I’ve ever read. My “personal belief” is, it’s been 17 years now. If, as Harold Wilson once said, “a week is a long time in politics,” how long is 17 years. Nothing substantial has come out during that time. Claims of Dwyer’s innocence are largely based on unproven claims of corruption and on Dwyer’s words at his last press conference. He couldn’t possibly have been lying right before he shot himself, could he? [Read the transcript](http://www.moderntv.com/modtvweb/qtclips/buddtr1.htm) and judge for yourself. (BTW, it goes without saying, but…that’s not me Dwyer’s referring to in the transcript.)