# Is there any evolutionary value in believing in God(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900 "2003-08-13T13:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/41 "2003-08-15T14:29:18Z")
there are some books that cover this question. See Darwins Cathedral by David Sloan as a recent example ( and good) example ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/42 "2003-08-15T17:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*Going back to the thread title… I would say yes… religion is ONE aspect of our Brain and evolution that allowed us to survive. Its part of social cohesion the same way sex and couple pairing allowed us to develop as better hunter gatherers. Still like all things evolutionary it might seem more appropiate to a more primitive setting. \*\* I say, “Nonsense”. Religion is not genetic, and is not passed on to one’s offspring in such a manner. It is a _learned_ behavior (and, as such, may be a _meme_, but it is not a biological construct). Religion, if it helps us at all, only works within a society, not outside of it; namely, it might have worked to keep our ancestors from killing each other off, or for otherwise maintaining order in a primitive society. However, having faith that God will protect you will not, in itself, keep the lions and tigers at bay. While there are similarities in the way societies evolve and the way species evolve, societal evolution is not biological evolution. Religion cannot be said to be, in any sense, a biological adaptation. The capacity for abstract reasoning which may lead us to religious thought, however, _is_ biological and adaptive. Our brains are the result of evolution; our every thought is not. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/43 "2003-08-15T17:37:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch \* > **I say, “Nonsense”. Religion is not genetic, and is not passed on to one’s offspring in such a manner. It is a _learned_ behavior (and, as such, may be a _meme_, but it is not a biological construct). Religion, if it helps us at all, only works within a society, not outside of it; namely, it might have worked to keep our ancestors from killing each other off, or for otherwise maintaining order in a primitive society. However, having faith that God will protect you will not, in itself, keep the lions and tigers at bay.** Religion may not be genetic, but perhaps gullability is? Or, to be more precise, perhaps there is a genetic trait to seek out explanations for observed phenomena that has an unfortunate side effect of causing people to be a bit too credulous at times. In China, for example, there are few organized religions, and most people do not profess any belief in “God”. However, many _do_ place great faith in acupuncture, “chi” energy, and the healing power of various animal parts. The fact that a billion Chinese people are non-religious may well be “proof” that religion, _per se_ is not genetic, but the fact that they have their own set of superstitions may indicate that the underlying causes of religion are, in fact, genetic after all. Or not. Barry ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/44 "2003-08-15T18:11:03Z")
Socialization skills or the “Herd Mentality” among mammals does not require rationalization. It requires that the herd animal feels good about being lead to where ever it is going. If the individual fears overcome the direction of the herd, then it stops and herd animals with similar fears stop as well and suddenly most, if not all of the herd stops or goes into another direction. No thinking required. Just the feeling that this is the right way to go. Sound familiar? can I get a “Moooooo!” ? ---
**Author:** ![kwildcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e5b9ba/32.png) [@kwildcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwildcat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/45 "2003-08-15T18:13:30Z")
The concepts of “life energy” (_chi_ and its analogues) and medical practices of acupuncture have solid scientific foundations. Western science is just now getting at the explanations for these Eastern “supersititions”, as you call them. Likewise the healing power of animal parts and also a great many medicinal plants. What else do you call the use of hormones, stem cells, etc. and Pfizer-sponsored pharmaceutical expeditions into the Amazon? Half the NFL gets acupuncture regularly, and I have personally participated in bio-feedback training to manage chronic migraines. Darwin and Rashak are correct - organized belief systems are simply a manifestation of abstract reasoning ability, and from a social evolutionary perspective, religious faith has indeed outgrown its usefulness as a survival trait. While in prehistoric times, organized faith enhanced the cohesiveness of social groupings, in modern times religious doctrine has so reduced the possible solution set for any conflict resolution as to make inter-society coexistence virtually impossible. ---
**Author:** ![kwildcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e5b9ba/32.png) [@kwildcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwildcat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/46 "2003-08-15T18:20:55Z")
self-correction: “organized faith” is wrong term for prehistoric times. Perhaps “common belief system”? What we would consider modern religions are simply more complex outgrowths of the mysticism and shamanism **Malthus** refers to (see 8.13.2003, 11:38). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900/47 "2003-08-16T01:54:29Z")
Ah, thank you, **kwildcat**. The allegation that naturalistic mysticism/shamanism was “not what we would call a religion” had been bothering me. And in that sense, I don’t think the OP as it stood necessarily had to refer to _“Organized” Religion_ (an obvious social construct) but it could address the propensity to hypothesize personalized supernatural agents in the attempt to explain man’s relationship with the universe (which does not necessarily have to involve ‘blind faith and obedience’). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-evolutionary-value-in-believing-in-god-s/194900.md?page=2)