# Is There Any Fairness Left In This Campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025 "2008-09-17T20:05:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/21 "2008-09-17T20:29:21Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > You act like someone just hacked her personal email to make fun of her, **Zev** when in reality people are doing it to get a bit of transparency on her operation as governor. And the funny, cross-eyed pic of her daughter fit the bill there? > [@](#): > > Secondly, this was not done by Obama. Never said it was and added a post later to make the point explicit. > [@](#): > > You talk about fairness, well, I’ve got news for you, Democrats are done with playing nice. You can blame nobody but the Republicans for that. How fair is it for people to question Obama’s patriotism and tell people he’s a secret Muslim? This shit has been coming from the Right for a looooooooong time now. Or maybe when people suggested that Michelle Obama was a black panther? There’s plenty more of that shit and it began before McCain even won the nomination. Your boys at Fox news do nothing but smear and lie about Democrats all goddamned day. Now when something happens Mooselini you’re going to say how unfair things are. Reminds me of the old crybaby at the playground. > > Cry me a fucking river. For heaven’s sake, it’s still wrong. It’s really simple – if you wouldn’t want it done to you, then it’s wrong. If the circumstances were exactly reversed and Biden’s email account was hacked, they’d be rightfully outraged. The point isn’t the actions of the hackers, it’s the blindness of people to the doing of wrong in the pursuit of a goal. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/22 "2008-09-17T20:30:23Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I’m a Dem, and I think that this is despicable and the people who did it should be charged with whatever crimes they may have committed. While Watergate now seems quaint compared with lying to start wars, etc. breaking in and invading privacy are still illegal and should be prosecuted. Strongly Left-leaning voter here who agrees completely. Justifying a wrong by pointing to someone else’s wrong (or alleged wrong, in this case) is improper no matter who is doing it. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/23 "2008-09-17T20:30:23Z")
> [@muttrox](#): > > If you’re going to make analogies, you also have to throw in that Biden is conducting government business illegally and unethically on his own private email account first. I’m a partisan liberal, and I would not be horrified if Biden was hacked, because I would be more horrified about Biden’s actions. I did do that. Didn’t you see the part in parenthases? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/24 "2008-09-17T20:32:38Z")
Politically, it’s a bad move as well. It generates sympathy for Palin and detracts from the investigation. Even if nothing actually resulted from the investigation until after the election, she would have been left to twist between now and then. This gives her an out. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/25 "2008-09-17T20:33:49Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I did do that. Didn’t you see the part in parenthases? > > Zev Steinhardt Actually I didn’t read it carefully enough. In that case, I just disagree. I’m a counterexample of one. Maybe I’m not “these people”. Are you talking about just the DU posters, or the whole country, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/26 "2008-09-17T20:33:46Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > No, I don’t. And I resent the implication. You have no idea of my political affiliation. > > Zev Steinhardt Yet, it follows that pattern so closely. Something about ducks is just at the tip of my tongue… Maybe it’ll come to me later. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/27 "2008-09-17T20:41:06Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Yet, it follows that pattern so closely. Something about ducks is just at the tip of my tongue… Maybe it’ll come to me later. For some reason, I can’t use Search right now. The only possible reference that I can think of is a comment I made years ago about if something walked like a duck, etc. But that was a comment with regard to religion, not politics. IIRC, it had to do with a Jews for Jesus thread (although I could be mistaken on the last point). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/28 "2008-09-17T20:44:54Z")
Gotta agree with you, **Zev**. As an outside observer, it seems to me that the level of partisan heat (and consequent bad behaviour by partisans of both sides) is higher in this campaign than I remember from previous US POTUS campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/29 "2008-09-17T20:48:55Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I think it’s outrageous. Does that count? Yes, it does, and as hard as I have been on you about your support for Obama, this deserves recognition. Well done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/30 "2008-09-17T20:49:56Z")
What kind of an idiot Governor uses a fucking Yahoo account to conduct state business? Still, it was wrong to hack it. Not only is it an invasion of privacy, it’s stupid. It does nothing for Obama politically and just feeds into the victim card for Palin. Still…Yahoo? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/31 "2008-09-17T20:52:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What kind of an idiot Governor uses a fucking Yahoo account to conduct state business? > Still…Yahoo? Yeah, I gotta agree with you there. 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/32 "2008-09-17T20:53:38Z")
Do the hacked e-mails confirm that she was using the account to conduct official business? Because it seems that everyone has parsed “Palin has come under fire for using private e-mail accounts to conduct state business. Critics allege that she uses the account to get around public records laws, as the Bush administration has also been charged with doing…” as actual confirmation that she uses the account for official business. But I don’t see where it says that, nor any confirmation of it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/33 "2008-09-17T20:57:27Z")
The hacking was wrong, period. There’s no excuse for it under any circumstances short of a court order. It is, in my opinion, a completely separate issue from the question of Palin’s use of personal email accounts for official business. Personally, i think that if it becomes clear that politicians are using personal email accounts to get around public records laws, then those laws need to be rewritten in such a way that _any_ correspondence related to a public official’s work—whether conducted on a government email account or a personal one—must be preserved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/34 "2008-09-17T21:08:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do the hacked e-mails confirm that she was using the account to conduct official business? > > Because it seems that everyone has parsed “Palin has come under fire for using private e-mail accounts to conduct state business. Critics allege that she uses the account to get around public records laws, as the Bush administration has also been charged with doing…” as actual confirmation that she uses the account for official business. But I don’t see where it says that, nor any confirmation of it. > [@](#): > > Palin routinely uses a private Yahoo e-mail account to conduct state business. Others in the governor’s office sometimes use personal e-mail accounts too. [Anchorage Daily News](http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/526281.html) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/35 "2008-09-17T21:13:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Personally, i think that if it becomes clear that politicians are using personal email accounts to get around public records laws, then those laws need to be rewritten in such a way that _any_ correspondence related to a public official’s work—whether conducted on a government email account or a personal one—must be preserved. It appears, from **Dio** ’s linked article, that the law already exists. > [@](#): > > Some of her aides also routinely use Yahoo, but even messages sent from one private account to another should be public, if they concern public business, said Dave Jones, an assistant attorney general. Of course, as this guy also concedes, the difficulty in such cases is finding out that the emails actually exist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/36 "2008-09-17T21:19:42Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > On edit: Nor do I think that this is an official account matters. Governors are entitled to keep their working accounts private until a court orders compliance with a subpoena. Rule of law and all that. I don’t know about Alaska, but here in Florida we have something called a “Sunshine Law” that requires that the public be allowed access to most government exchange. Mrs. Palin would probably be subject to impeachment if she tried that shit here. > [@](#): > > In Florida, every person has been granted the Constitutional right to inspect or copy any public record with some exemptions, and the Sunshine Law provides a right of access to government proceedings at both the state and local levels. These essential laws afford citizens of our state the ability to see behind the curtain of government and remain involved in the processes that affect their lives. Without this access there is little accountability, and accountability is vital for good government. [http://myfloridalegal.com/sunshine](http://myfloridalegal.com/sunshine) (linked directly from [www.myflorida.gov](http://www.myflorida.gov)) The above said, her personal email should only be accessible via subpoena, and I’d hope someone would start those legal proceedings right away. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/37 "2008-09-17T22:01:05Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > As many of you are by now aware, Sarah Palin’s [personal email account was hacked](http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/group-posts-e-m.html). > > What distrubs me far more than this is the fact that the [folks on DU](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3495266) seem to all (or mostly anyway… there is one dissenter so far) that this is a good thing. And yet, my gut tells me that if Joe Biden’s or Barack Obama’s email account was hacked, they’d be (rightfully) outraged, calling for investigations and prosecution of the people involved. > > Have we become so blinded by partisan politics that we can’t even recognize when someone does something wrong? > > Zev Steinhardt > And, yes, I’m aware that there is some question regarding her using this account for state business and that some of the emails may be subpoenaed. Still doesn’t make it right. Yes mate, Party Political people. No wrong against an enemy. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/38 "2008-09-17T22:04:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, it does, and as hard as I have been on you about your support for Obama, this deserves recognition. Well done. > > Regards, > Shodan Better than you’ve done in the years I’ve watched, pity a hard Left partisan puts you to shame, but she did not have to try too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/39 "2008-09-17T22:15:10Z")
Interesting. Disgusting, but interesting. A few questions for those who abhor it: [ul] [li]If there is a working Wikileak link with alleged nefarious shenanigans, do you click the link? [/li][li]If there is a news story about what the emails contain, do you turn the channel/not read it?[/li][li]If there is something substantive in the emails, should the NY Times et al ignore it?[/li][li]If there is a post with email contents, should they be in [spoiler] tags?[/li][li]Does it matter whether or not the emails pertain to official business or personal matters?[/li][li]How do you determine whether the emails are personal or official without reading them? [/ul][/li] If this is traced back to the campaign, in any way shape or form — even tenuously — could this turn into a fork-worthy incident? Though I sincerely doubt anyone in the upper echelons was aware/authorized it, it’s surely a Watergate-level invasion. The Rove angle is also interesting. Granted, it approaches New Coke-level conspiracy thinking, but putting something like this out there for a few days of titillation, then having it be discovered that there really isn’t anything there goes a long way to exoneration in the mind of the public. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Rove told Palin to delete X, Y, and Z, then change her password to pitbull08 to see what happens. And yeah, I thought anonymous was Scientology-focused. Do I have my groups mixed up? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/40 "2008-09-17T22:36:04Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > And yeah, I thought anonymous was Scientology-focused. Do I have my groups mixed up? Well, the thing is that Anonymous goes after anyone and anything they want to- they’re not really an organized group. That very aspect of their existence makes the “Rove planned it” conspiracy theory a bit more attractive- there’s no official Anonymous leader who can say, “Uh, no, we didn’t do it.” Of course, I think it’s more likely that they DID actually do it, but that it was a hack that Palin/Rove kinda wanted to happen anyway. It’s even more likely, though, that the situation is exactly what it looks like- that Anon DID hack it. Find out who did it, and bust their asses. That said, Palin was an idiot for using Yahoo mail for official business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025.md?page=3)