# Is There Any Fairness Left In This Campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025 "2008-09-17T20:05:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/61 "2008-09-18T00:49:00Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Duh… Howard Dean, prior to his current gig as Democratic Party chairman, was governor of Vermont. And, yes, he did conduct state business from his personal email account, under the mistaken impression that it would be exempt from public disclosure. If that’s true then he was an idiot too. So what? ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/62 "2008-09-18T00:50:34Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Anonymous is not a he/she. It’s a whole conglomerate of script-kiddies. > \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* > I’m completely not surprised to see they’re behind this. Yeah, I’m aware ‘Anonymous’ is an amorphous gang, not an individual or even a couple of people. I’m not very proud of my own character, either, because I snickered over their blows to the Scientology empire. In my personal cosmology, the whole Scientologist scam and its minions rank right down there with people who dump biohazard needles just offshore public beaches. My main point stands: invasion of privacy really stinks, even from self-appointed vigilantes. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/63 "2008-09-18T00:54:33Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Howard Dean, for one. Apparently, he thought that conducting business from his private email account would exempt them from disclosure. Do you have a cite? Not that I don’t trust you, I just don’t recall it. I assume your proximity gives you more information. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/64 "2008-09-18T00:54:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thank you for bringing the correct attitude to this thread. What happened is despicable and nothing but a crime. I would investigate this as much as possible and string the scum up to the fullest extent of the law. Which should include “attempting to interfere with an election” or some such crime. You want to just make up a crime? How does this constitute any kind of interference with an election? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/65 "2008-09-18T01:00:51Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > My main point stands: invasion of privacy really stinks, even from self-appointed vigilantes. I’d really like to be able to say I agree with this, but I just can’t. Bear in mind I’m saying this as both an independent and a rat bastard. If she’s using her personal email account to conduct what is essentially public government business just to dodge having to keep things on record, she doesn’t get to hide behind privacy. If she started throwing government business that should be on record on to her personal account, it’s not her personal account anymore. Either way, Anonymous committed a crime and should be punished if caught. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/66 "2008-09-18T01:02:21Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Yeah, I’m aware ‘Anonymous’ is an amorphous gang, not an individual or even a couple of people. I’m not very proud of my own character, either, because I snickered over their blows to the Scientology empire. In my personal cosmology, the whole Scientologist scam and its minions rank right down there with people who dump biohazard needles just offshore public beaches. > > My main point stands: invasion of privacy really stinks, even from self-appointed vigilantes. Sorry, I think I misread your post. But well, people who didn’t know who they were before know now…or something… ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/67 "2008-09-18T01:11:47Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Sorry, I think I misread your post. But well, people who didn’t know who they were before know now…or something… [/QUOTE] ::blinks:: No prob, **pepper**. My post wasn’t all that clear, and your elaboration on Anonymous was great, IMO. My follow-up blather was mostly to express discomfort on the limits of my own ethics. But what if sneak attacks are used against a really, _really_ bad target, like Scientology, say… Gack. Damned slippery slopes and all that. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/68 "2008-09-18T01:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Bear in mind I’m saying this as both an independent and a rat bastard. If she’s using her personal email account to conduct what is essentially public government business just to dodge having to keep things on record, she doesn’t get to hide behind privacy. If she started throwing government business that should be on record on to her personal account, it’s not her personal account anymore. [/QUOTE] As another Independent and rat bastard, I agree. I don’t think her personal e-mail is sacrosanct in the sense of being beyond the law. As a public official, it’s absolutely fair game _for investigators_. My problem is with self-appointed vigilantes delving into it–or into anyone’s private sphere. Not their role, not their authority. If Palin in fact conducted official business via her personal e-mail then hey, sucks to be her, not the least for such a hopelessly clumsy, _stupid_ attempt at evasion. Stuff blown across the internet may do some very temporary damage among a limited group of people. And probably not Palin’s core supporters. Full legal discovery might have some legs and crediblity. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/69 "2008-09-18T01:47:37Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > As another Independent and rat bastard, I agree. I don’t think her personal e-mail is sacrosanct in the sense of being beyond the law. As a public official, it’s absolutely fair game _for investigators_. My problem is with self-appointed vigilantes delving into it–or into anyone’s private sphere. Not their role, not their authority. I can understand that, but personally I have a bigger problem with a government official pulling this crap to avoid transparency than somebody hacking them to expose it. > [@](#): > > If Palin in fact conducted official business via her personal e-mail then hey, sucks to be her, not the least for such a hopelessly clumsy, _stupid_ attempt at evasion. Stuff blown across the internet may do some very temporary damage among a limited group of people. And probably not Palin’s core supporters. Full legal discovery might have some legs and crediblity. True. It’d also be better if they hadn’t done such a half assed job of it and actually pulled some evidence off before the accounts and possibly any evidence were deleted. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/70 "2008-09-18T02:27:05Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Based on the level of sophistication I’ve seen from Palin, her password was probably something like “hockeymom”. Some high school kid probably hacked it within his first 10 tries of a password. Using a free service like Yahoo for anything personal is like changing your clothes in the middle of Times Square and then accusing everyone of being a Peeping Tom. Actually, how they ‘hacked’ it? Her secret ‘I forgot my password’ question was ‘What is my zip code?’ … I jest thee not. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/71 "2008-09-18T02:39:30Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Actually, how they ‘hacked’ it? Her secret ‘I forgot my password’ question was ‘What is my zip code?’ > > … I jest thee not. Geez, I can’t believe that’s a recover-your-password question. And it makes me nervous. One of my secret questions (I’m not telling you jerks what it’s to, though) is “What is your father’s middle name?” Now, none of you know my father’s first name, let alone his middle name. But if you were really psycho and really, really wanted to know, it wouldn’t be impossible to find out. And if I were, say, running for Vice President, it’d probably be in my Wikipedia article. (Sarah Palin’s wiki article only gives her dad’s middle initial, though. WHEW.) If I were a public figure, I’d be INCREDIBLY nervous about being hacked. It looks really shockingly easy given how readily available all this information is. Oh, and count me in as another liberal who thinks this is really disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/72 "2008-09-18T02:47:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > For what it is worth, I think you are wrong. > > I believe **Zev** is merely disgusted by the knee-jerk partisanship which this election appears to have inspired in abundance regardless of party, and of which this is merely an example. You’re entitled to that opinion. I am entitled to mine. When you make a OP that pretty much defines the wrong doing as “the campaign” then links to a clearly left wing partisan site, I find the implication clear. The fact that it follows pretty much the Republican Dirty Tactics 101, and I now learn that the OP is a conservative, well lets say I find his denials unconvincing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/73 "2008-09-18T02:57:43Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Better than you’ve done in the years I’ve watched, pity a hard Left partisan puts you to shame, but she did not have to try too hard. Regardless of your views of other posters, they are not the topic of this thread and issuing backhanded compliments (and barely disguised insults) are not appropriate to this thread. Leave it for the **Pit** or a private discussion. = = = And on the subject, **Stuffy** , everyone got your original point. Unfortunately, having made your point you then had to go out of your way to make sarcastic comments about another poster that were totally irrelevant to the discussion. Take it elsewhere. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/74 "2008-09-18T03:07:40Z")
I apologize. I have been monitoring a couple of **GD** threads, came to this thread from a separate link, and did not realize that this was actually in the Pit. I guess you can go on being as nasty as you wish (although I still think it is a bit pointless). [/Not Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/75 "2008-09-18T03:08:13Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > You’re entitled to that opinion. I am entitled to mine. When you make a OP that pretty much defines the wrong doing as “the campaign” then links to a clearly left wing partisan site, I find the implication clear. The fact that it follows pretty much the Republican Dirty Tactics 101, and I now learn that the OP is a conservative, well lets say I find his denials unconvincing. Stuffy, read my OP again. I did _not_ say that the “the campaign” did anything wrong, and, if that wasn’t clear enough, I re-iterated it again. My complaint is against people who are so partisan that even if one of their own does something wrong, they are so blinded by their hatred for the other side that they not only are willing to let it slide but also encourage it. Please show me where I said that the campaign or anyone connected with it was responsible. Are there conservatives who will latch on to this for gain? Sadly, yes… I agree with you. But that has nothing to do with my point. In any event, I invite you to peruse the following two links from the 2004 campaign. In the first one, I comment on a stupid paranoid statement made by a Republican. In the second, I call out _both_ parties for their meanness, vindictiveness and demonization of the other side. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275845&highlight=kerry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275845&highlight=kerry) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282934&highlight=kerry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282934&highlight=kerry) Do you know what my problem is, **Stuffy**? It’s the lack of civil discourse in America today. I know that I can disagree with someone on an issue and yet hold an intelligent debate with them. I don’t have to resort to name calling, demonization or making the assumption that they’re doing it because they have some hidden agenda. The fact that we simply can’t have a disagreement without all the partisanship, the fact that every debate has to be completely good vs. evil. Well, I’m sick of it. The very fact that you’re accusing me of having a hidden agenda is just simply an example of this. To you, it’s not possible that a conservative could _honestly_ make a legitimate complaint about partisanship on the part of Democrats. And, despite your assertions, had the example been the other way, I would make the _exact_ same point. I’ve been sick of what has happened to the political process in this country for the last eight years.\* It’s become needlessly vile – and that goes for _both_ sides. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/76 "2008-09-18T03:12:05Z")
begone, foul confusion. Tom’s corrected himself. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/77 "2008-09-18T03:21:00Z")
Oh, and **Stuffy** … In my second link, make sure you read my posts beyond the OP… I take conservatives to task in that thread. (BTW, you’re in that thread too.) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/78 "2008-09-18T03:33:37Z")
Ok **zev** , I went outside and took a deep breath. You know what, I’m open to being wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time, and won’t be the last (nobody tell my wife I said that). Like you I’m getting so sick of crap like I’ve posted about that I’m starting to see it, even if it may not have been there. I’ve pulled back from the election this year, for the first time in my adult life I’m neither volunteering, hell I might not even vote. I’m so sick of this shit! Anyway, I only vaguely remember but you seem to have impressed other members with your previous history as an honorable poster so I’ll accept that and let this go. To the other posters I’ve engaged, accept my apologies if I’ve come off as an ass. I’m sure that won’t be the last time either. Regards Stuffy ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/79 "2008-09-18T03:43:14Z")
Fine by me. FWIW ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025/80 "2008-09-18T03:51:15Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Ok **zev** , I went outside and took a deep breath. You know what, I’m open to being wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time, and won’t be the last (nobody tell my wife I said that). Like you I’m getting so sick of crap like I’ve posted about that I’m starting to see it, even if it may not have been there. I’ve pulled back from the election this year, for the first time in my adult life I’m neither volunteering, hell I might not even vote. I’m so sick of this shit! Anyway, I only vaguely remember but you seem to have impressed other members with your previous history as an honorable poster so I’ll accept that and let this go. To the other posters I’ve engaged, accept my apologies if I’ve come off as an ass. I’m sure that won’t be the last time either. > > Regards > > Stuffy Don’t worry about it. There have been plenty of times that I’ve misread posts and there have been times that I’ve gotten bent out of shape over an issue. Happens to all of us. Zev Steinhardt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-fairness-left-in-this-campaign/464025.md?page=5)