# Is there any Future for Communism? \[De-Trocked thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526 "2026-11-06T01:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/41 "2026-10-31T19:13:15Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That there are still fans of communism is disappointing in the same way that the continued existence of flatearthers is disappointing, but the world is insufficient to the reality. Flat earthers are, for the most part, harmless. (There’s a correlation with other, more damaging ideas; but the belief in a flat earth in and of itself is simply dumb, not dangerous). Communists want to bring their disastrous system into practice once more. > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/41): > > It’s exactly what people went through that drives my sentiments. Yeah, this. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/42 "2026-10-31T19:47:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > my sentiments. Then you have to respect people’s political options. This is what democracy is all about. And you can’t claim you care about certain people, and then compare them with flat-earthers. There are many people in former communist countries who still believe in communism. They have the right to vote for whomever they want without being ridiculed for it. This is what triggers radical social divides and unnecessary political turmoil. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/43 "2026-10-31T19:54:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Hence, the idea of a Vanguard party. No communist project has existed without a vanguard party. Because Marx was wrong about dialectical materialism and the inevitable progression of society through the stages of feudalism, capitalism, and the communism, we will never see a communist project arise without an authoritarian vanguard party to implement it, and we will never see a communist project last beyond the point at which the vanguard party stops suppressing any alternative. > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/35): > > Of course an authoritarian group was necessary to implement this social project. Marx himself included it in his project. An authoritarian group operated during the French Revolution as well. What does that have to do with the claim that the distinction between a theoretical social project and its application is a trick? Would Marx be disillusioned by Communist Russia? Appalled? Pleased? Vindicated? Confused? That these governments felt the need to suppress ALL dissent would seem to strongly imply that they (Lenin, Stalin, Mao) knew their schema was inherently unstable, even if no determined opposition (propaganda aside) existed either within its borders or without. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/44 "2026-10-31T19:55:10Z")
> [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/43): > > There are many people in former communist countries who still believe in communism. They have the right to vote for whomever they want without being ridiculed for it. This you? > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > There will always be fans of anything, including Nazism, theocracy, and other forms of authoritarianism. You have not yet given any reason to support those who want to reinstate communism or to give us reason to believe you do not equally support these alternate forms of totalitarianism. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/45 "2026-10-31T19:58:45Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1034519/83): > > We must liberate the Taiwanese proletariat from the bourgeoisie.” It is impossible to imagine the Cultural Revolution happening in today’s China, because nobody is that enthusiastic for Communism any more. Is the whole thing officially over? Yes, it’s dead. Recent history suggests that despite early ideological enthusiasm, it quickly devolved into a red-washing of age-old imperial aspirations. The USSR was just Russia’s never-ending quest to rule Slavic Europe. The CCP became a reboot of Chinese imperial aspirations. North Korea, a family dynasty. The “organic” movements worldwide were for the most part instrumentalized by Russia or China. Vietnam seems to be an exception. It threw off Russian and Chinese influence and is still very much communist, though it does have a vibrant market economy. It suggests that communism can be workable when the people are cohesive enough to pull together and reject foreign interference, and when doctrine can be relaxed enough to allow a partial market economy. That only Vietnam seems to have pulled it off suggests that these conditions are fairly uncommon. Of course Cuba also is a communist country as well. Whether it’s “working” is a matter of debate. Cuba is not thriving economically by any typical understanding of “thriving”. But if the intent of the people is to have a sustainable country free of the problems of capitalism, then it’s working. Most Cubans would probably like more material prosperity than they have, but as they aren’t really protesting in the street to start another revolution, it seems like they mostly feel their form of government is preferable to the American-dominated oligarchy that preceded it. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/46 "2026-10-31T19:59:11Z")
I am not communist–I have already said that. Please refer exactly to what I said: people’s political options must all be treated with respect as long as they’re legal. Otherwise, radical social divides and unnecessary political turmoil will develop. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/47 "2026-10-31T20:09:32Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Then you have to respect people’s political options. This is what democracy is all about. No, it isn’t. Democracy is about deciding what to do through societal debate and consensus; it doesn’t mean we have to respect every different idea, just protect people’s rights to express those ideas. Do you respect Nazism? > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > And you can’t claim you care about certain people, and then compare them with flat-earthers. Why not? I care about plenty of people who I disagree with, even to the point of thinking that their ideas are stupid. > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/46): > > Most Cubans would probably like more material prosperity than they have, but as they aren’t really protesting in the street to start another revolution, it seems like they mostly feel their form of government is preferable to the American-dominated oligarchy that preceded it. That _could_ be the reason; or it could be that they’re scared: > **[Freedom of expression in Cuba](https://www.amnesty.org/en/projects/cuba-freedom-of-expression/)** > > Despite unrelenting attacks on activists and human rights defenders, Cubans continue to courageously resist authoritarian practices and push for the protection of their rights. (AI has plenty of its own issues but I don’t think these claims about Cuba are even controversial) > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/47): > > people’s political options must all be treated with respect as long as they’re legal So we should treat Neo-Nazis with respect? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/48 "2026-10-31T20:12:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So we should treat Neo-Nazis with respect? Neo-Nazi is illegal, as far as I know. Why are you asking this question? Is this taunting? I specifically mentioned legal political alternatives. Every legal political alternative in a country must be treated with respect. If people keep demonizing political alternatives, basic social consensus will collapse and political turmoil will ensue. This may lead to war, authoritarianism, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/49 "2026-10-31T20:15:24Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Neo-Nazi is illegal, as far as I know. You would be factually incorrect about that, if we are talking about the US. > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Why are you asking this question? Is this taunting? Because being a communist is nearly as despicable as being a Neo-Nazi, and I’m curious if you are as steadfast about how we should respect them, too. > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I specifically mentioned legal political alternatives. Nazism is not illegal in the US. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/50 "2026-10-31T20:18:10Z")
I am not familiar with a lot of things in American politics. Is this a discussion about Communism in America? I still believe that in principle, we should respect everyone’s political options if we believe in democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/51 "2026-10-31T20:20:05Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I still believe that in principle, we should respect everyone’s political options if we believe in democracy. Even Nazis? > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Is this a discussion about Communism in America? No, it’s a discussion in general. You’re the one who brought up legality, which is specific to nations. When you say that we should be respectful of “any ideology that is legal”, the question becomes, “legal where?”. In the US, any ideology is legal. Some actions based on ideology may be illegal, but no political opinion is illegal in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/52 "2026-10-31T20:28:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Even Nazis? This is a matter of principle. We’re supposed to respect legality. In the absence of legality, there’s just chaos and neither communism nor Nazism matter. Every state and nation is organized differently. If we live in democracy, and people have the right to vote or be voted for, any legal political option is a valid one. If we treat people with scorn and hatred, they will react by treating us with scorn and hatred. Social consensus will collapse and political turmoil will ensue: civili wars, authoritarian tendencies, legal abuses where leaders or sponsors of the opposition are imprisoned, and so on. Every legal political alternative must be treated with respect in democracy. I have to admit that my perspective is shaped by the fact that I live in Europe (and that I find the American model problematic). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/53 "2026-10-31T20:33:17Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > This is a matter of principle. We’re supposed to respect legality. In the absence of legality, there’s just chaos and neither communism nor Nazism matter. And Nazism is legal in the US. Should we respect Nazis? The question of legality only kicks things back one step. Why should we make Nazism illegal and Communism legal? Legality here is just an appeal to authority. There must be some underlying property of each ideology that makes you think they should be treated differently. Personally, I think that both ideologies should be _legal_, but neither should be _respected_. I believe in freedom of speech not because I respect every possible thing that anyone could ever say, but because I worry about what the government will do with the power to decide which speech is and is not acceptable. That doesn’t mean I have to _respect it_ if someone says that people of a certain race are inferior or that private property is inherently theft. > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > If we treat people with scorn and hatred, they will react by treating us with scorn and hatred. Oh no, if we don’t respect communists, they might do something crazy, like adopting a scornful ideology such as communism? Good heavens, no! > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Every legal political alternative must be treated with respect in democracy So what is it about communism that makes it acceptable to you while fascism is not? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/54 "2026-10-31T20:39:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So what is it about communism that makes it acceptable to you while fascism is not? I find communism, fascism, Nazism equally unattractive. This is not the point. The point is that people should be happy or at least lead decent lives, where everyone has a fair opportunity to fulfill themselves. This cannot happen in the absence of social consensus and political stability. Democracy and the rule of law can encourage that. In this context, we should respect everyone’s political options so as to avoid the perils I have already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/55 "2026-10-31T20:41:00Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I find communism, fascism, Nazism equally unattractive. This is not the point. > > The point is that people should be happy or at least lead decent lives, where everyone has a fair opportunity to fulfill themselves. This cannot happen in the absence of social consensus and political stability. Democracy and the rule of law can encourage that. In this context, we should respect everyone’s political options so as to avoid the perils I have already mentioned OK, so we SHOULD respect the political opinions of Nazis? If Nazism and Communism are equivalently distasteful, I don’t see why you would say we should respect one but not the other. And if the answer is “one is legal and one is not”, that just raises the question of why Nazism should be illegal but Communism should be legal. If they are equally distasteful, why not treat them the same? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/56 "2026-10-31T20:47:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > OK, so we SHOULD respect the political opinions of Nazis? I have stated a general principle because I refuse to discuss American politics, including whether or not the US is a genuine democracy. Any extreme political movement is distasteful, regardless of its orientation (left or right). However, it must not be the label that should decide a movement’s legality, but its political manifesto and agenda. If they go against the Constitution and the law in general, they are equally bad. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/57 "2026-10-31T20:50:27Z")
I’m very confused as to what legality had to do with respect. Would you respect someone who decided to leave his 8 month pregnant wife for an 18 year old he met at a rave? Do you think that behavior should be _illegal_? Regardless of the legality of Nazism or Communism, I have no respect for either set of beliefs. I don’t understand why you demand that I respect communism but are fine with me not respecting Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/58 "2026-10-31T20:57:17Z")
Is the term “respect” the point of confusion here? Like @Babale, it’s not at all clear to me what you’re advocating. There’s countless philosophies I find ridiculous. That said, I support a person’s right to such beliefs. Is the latter “respect,” despite the former? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/59 "2026-10-31T21:00:06Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I find communism, fascism, Nazism equally unattractive. This is not the point. All countries that are now or have ever been run as “communist” countries are totalitarian ruled. That is incompatible with “everyone has a fair opportunity to fulfill themselves”. America has not the slightest possibility of putting communists into any meaningful office, so its politics are irrelevant. My antipathy to communist governments is out of respect for the opinions of those who desperately wanted to remove themselves from such rule and not at all respectful of those who want to put themselves under totalitarian rule. I can’t understand where we differ on this. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/60 "2026-10-31T21:00:23Z")
This discussion is about communism as a political and social project. In practice, it seems to have failed. However, there are still fans who vote for leftist alternatives. Although I don’t find this appealing, I find nothing wrong with this. It is a respectable option because it is a legal alternative. I choose to respect other people’s political options because I promote social consensus and political stability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526.md?page=4)