# Is there any Future for Communism? \[De-Trocked thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526 "2026-11-06T01:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/61 "2026-10-31T21:03:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My antipathy to communist governments I strongly dislike communist governments. But this is a different discussion. The members of the Chinese Party who possess billions of dollars are not leftists and they do not believe in communism (and I will mention that by “communism” I mean communism as a social project). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/62 "2026-10-31T21:05:42Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > This discussion is about communism as a political and social project. In practice, it seems to have failed. However, there are still fans who vote for leftist alternatives. Although I don’t find this appealing, I find nothing wrong with this. It is a respectable option because it is a legal alternative. I choose to respect other people’s political options because I promote social consensus and political stability Ok, forget the term “Neo Nazi”. Do you respect AFD voters? Obviously, they are legal. Is their far right fascist adjacent (just far enough for German law! 👍) ideology something we should respect because it’s a legal alternative? Do we need to respect their opinions on immigrants because it promotes social concensus and political stability to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/63 "2026-10-31T21:07:11Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I strongly dislike communist governments. But this is a different discussion. The members of the Chinese Party who possess billions of dollars are not leftists and they do not believe in communism Of course they are. They are what leftism and communism look like in practice. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/64 "2026-10-31T21:07:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you respect AFD voters? AFD is a far-right party, but they’re not Nazis or Neo-Nazis. This is a legal option, so I respect it, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/65 "2026-10-31T21:09:14Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > there are still fans who vote for leftist alternatives. > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/62): > > I strongly dislike communist governments. But this is a different discussion. Let me try to understand this. You’re saying that people who want communism as a leftist alternative are advocating for a politically and socially yet unknown form of non-totalitarian communism? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/66 "2026-10-31T21:10:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They are what leftism and communism look like in practice. I will go with historians have to say in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/67 "2026-10-31T21:10:44Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Would Marx be disillusioned by Communist Russia? Appalled? Pleased? Vindicated? Confused? I would expect all of the above. Marxist ideology evolved a fair bit after Marx. He would never have considered peasant revolutions like in Russia or China could actually lead to a Marxist state. Marx and a lot of his disciples were of the opinion that only an industrial proletariat could successfully pull off and implement a genuine workers’s revolution. The peasantry were often regarded as uneducated, inherently conservative and potentially reactionary. They maybe could be brought into a revolutionary state, but would certainly never spearhead it and would just as likely be in opposition. I’m pretty sure he’d be disillusioned, appalled, pleased, feel vindicated and be confused at various different things. Karl Marx was a smart, thoughtful man. He just was shackled by the ignorance of his circumstances. First that the viciously exploitive capitalist/classist system of his day could be ameliorated to the point where it would largely defang an inevitable march towards social revolution, was not something at all apparent in his day and age. Secondly utopian thought was very widespread in the 19th century. It was a lot more reasonable to hypothesize back then that once the corrupting influence of economic repression was removed that a better nature of humanity could perhaps assert itself. As noted, he was wrong. Utopias don’t work - whether it be a workers’s paradise as envisioned by Marx or the rugged individualist utopias proposed by some libertarians. I was raised by ideological communists who were pretty good people, so I don’t hate communists - that would create far too much cognitive dissonance 🙂. But there is a reason I’m a cold fish realist (though a left-leaning one) rather than a passionate idealist. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/68 "2026-10-31T21:11:39Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > AFD is a far-right party, but they’re not Nazis or Neo-Nazis. No, they just think that Hitler was right about a lot of things. > [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > This is a legal option, so I respect it, of course. That’s where we diverge. Of course I don’t respect AFD’s ideology. That doesn’t mean that I think that the government should make it illegal to have that ideology. You do see the distinction, right? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/69 "2026-10-31T21:12:30Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’re saying that people who want communism as a leftist alternative are advocating for a politically and socially yet unknown form of non-totalitarian communism? If they were advocating for dictatoriship, they would not allowed to function legally in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/70 "2026-10-31T21:13:54Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I will go with historians have to say in this respect. I must have missed the post where you linked a historian saying that members of the Chinese Communist Party are not Communists? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/71 "2026-10-31T21:15:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That doesn’t mean that I think that the government should make it illegal to have that ideology. You do see the distinction, right? Any extremist political movement that encourages the replacement of the democratic form of government with authoritarianism should be illegal, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/72 "2026-10-31T21:16:35Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > I will go with historians have to say in this respect. I am a historian, although far more conversant with American democracy than European leftist movements. > [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/70): > > If they were advocating for dictatoriship, they would not allowed to function legally in Europe. I’m not remembering when a leftist party that later become a dictatorship ever campaigned on the agenda that they would impose a dictatorship. You’d think that might have gotten attention at some later point. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/73 "2026-10-31T21:16:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I must have missed the post where you linked a historian saying that members of the Chinese Communist Party are not Communists? Yes, right after I see the cite about “the trick.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/74 "2026-10-31T21:18:48Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I was raised by ideological communists who were pretty good people Well you can’t just leave it at that! You gotta do an AMA thread or something 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/75 "2026-10-31T21:19:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’d think that might have gotten attention at some later point. So, they never planned to apply Marx’s Dictatorship of the Proletariat, did they? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/76 "2026-10-31T21:20:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Well you can’t just leave it at that! Oh, the sublime of personal attacks when everything else fails. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/77 "2026-10-31T21:20:25Z")
Of course they planned to do their own realization of a dictatorship under any name. They just never called it that in a votable political campaign. Or do you have a cite for an example? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/78 "2026-10-31T21:23:48Z")
> [@Is Communism without a future?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-communism-without-a-future/1034281/77): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Well you can’t just leave it at that! > > Oh, the sublime of personal attacks when everything else fails. Personal attack? Huh? I was expressing curiosity about what it was like to be raised by people who believed in communism; that sounds fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/79 "2026-10-31T21:24:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Of course they planned to. They just never called it that in a votable political campaign. You know who _else_ didn’t campaign on creating a dictatorship? That’s right: Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526/80 "2026-10-31T21:24:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They just never called it that in a votable political campaign. Yes, they did. It was openly admitted, publically taught, and learned by everyone interested in it. It was no secret. This is the reason why, for example, The Romanian Army helped oust the communist government in Hungary, known as the Hungarian Soviet Republic led by Béla Kun, during the Hungarian–Romanian War in August 1919. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-future-for-communism-de-trocked-thread/1034526.md?page=5)