# Is there any gold in Fort Knox? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403 "2013-08-16T09:11:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/41 "2013-08-16T19:54:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces. > > That’s not quite 4600 metric tons of gold. > > At about 20 metric tons per tractor-trailer (@45,000 pounds), that would be 230 truck loads of gold. Not even a super-villain organization could haul all of it away. Even if it wasn’t a major Army base. > > Used to work Armored. Been in several regional bank vaults and the Minneapolis Federal Reserve. Seen mountains and mountains of cash. Had $1-4 million in the back of my truck every day on the way back from the vaults for months at a time. Picked up $3.5 million or so from a casino on more than one occasion (several carts) It’s just a job, and you can’t spend too much time thinking about how much it is, but when you stop and pause… yeah, it was pretty cool. (And no, you don’t make big money doing that shit. You make jack.) I I was a guard for a truck that was being used to haul several tons of quarters, back in the days of Video arcades and such. Since the armored car companies wouldn’t take it, the bank had to move it themselves. Large uhaul, two cars, 4 armed guards, 2 drivers, one bank rep. For _quarters_. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/42 "2013-08-16T20:00:24Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Isn’t this one of the conspiracy theories going around the Freemen of the Land-type loonies? That all the gold has actually been missing for (mumble mumble) years and therefore, because (mumble mumble) the government is no longer legitimate? Yeah, [Ron Paul](http://www.cnbc.com/id/43391588) wants all the gold in Fort Knox checked to make sure it’s not just painted fakes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/43 "2013-08-16T20:07:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Schrodinger’s gold. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 You’re saying the gold is either there or it’s not, but we’ve nothing to worry about until some damn fool collapses the wave function?? :smack: 😃 > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Precisely. Once the vault is opened and it’s contents, if any, assayed, we will discover that there is no or not enough gold there and there will be loss of faith in our government. Or it will all be there and the conspiracy theorists will be driven to the point of saying that the assay was faked, photoshopped, etc. Life is Schrodinger’s Gold. So the global economic collapse is all Ann’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/44 "2013-08-16T20:14:15Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Side note- whether there’s gold in the Depository, I think we can all agree that Ft Knox is an actual army base, home to tank brigades. > I was never stationed there but I’ve driven past it. I think all the tank brigades have been transferred to Fort Benning. Fort Knox is now mostly a training center. According to Wikipedia, the only active combat unit still stationed there is an infantry brigade: 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/45 "2013-08-16T21:37:10Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Really? You don’t think there are basic civilian shipping/logistics companies that have 230 tractor trailers? I’m sure they do. But Dr. No isn’t going to be able to overcome all the troops there and roll in 230 semis to haul it out. He certainly would never get away with it, as that many trucks is a very large and slow moving target. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/46 "2013-08-16T21:43:07Z")
Plus, they can’t get away fast enough to get away from the Abrams M-1 tanks that are there. That would be very cool movie though. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/47 "2013-08-16T22:15:42Z")
That’s why you load the gold in hijacked M1 tanks, and make the soldiers chase you in the trucks. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/48 "2013-08-16T22:50:24Z")
Can you start a tank without keys? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/49 "2013-08-16T22:58:15Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But this question reveals how silly the “gold standard” nonsense is. Suppose we had a gigantic pile of gold, and each paper dollar represented a certain weight of gold. And everyone happily exchanges the pieces of paper for goods and services. > > Then one day a genie waves his magic wand and turns all the gold into cadmium (for variety), except for a tiny outer layer. To external inspection the bars look the same. And we keep on exchanging the paper money that represented the now-nonexistent gold for the same goods and services as before. > > What changed? What makes the pieces of paper into bad money, when before they were good money? Especially since the government would never ever allow you to exchange your paper money for gold, even back when the gold really existed. > > Back when we still pretended to be on the gold standard there was no free market for gold. Yes, it was illegal for American citizens to own gold except jewelry. That’s because, when the value of the dollar is related to the supply of gold, the government must control the gold market to control the currency. What, you think they’re going to have paper gold certificates and not control the value of gold? Of course not. > > But now that we’ve given up the fiction that the price of gold and the value of the dollar have any fixed relationship, you are free to go to any coin shop, and give them your worthless federal reserve notes and walk out with gold coins jingling in your pocket. You don’t have to worry about inflation or currency manipulation or bankers, you’ve got gold coins in your possession. Yes, when it’s time to pay your taxes you’ll have to use some gold coins to buy the exact amount of dollars you need to send to Uncle Sam (check the note, whose picture is on it? Then render to George Washington that which belongs to George Washington). > > The only transaction you have to use dollars for is to pay your taxes, or if someone owes you a debt you are legally obligated to accept dollars for the debt. But if you never allow anyone to go into debt to you, then you’re fine and can legally conduct all your business using gold bullion. The silly people are the ones who believe a stable currency can be maintained with fiat money. ALL POLITICIANS LIE! It’s in their nature to promise goodies to various constituents. Gold has thousands of years in providing, at least for longer periods, of stable prices. It’s durable, relatively rare, easy to work with. Eventually politicians figure out how to devalue it, and not run a stable economy. I don’t go along with the painted bars loonies…they are as stupid as the CIA killed JFK and the 9/11 fools. But at the same time some kind of regular independent audit could and should be done. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/50 "2013-08-16T23:05:11Z")
Why? What possible good could come from an audit? If they say the gold is there, people will say it’s still a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/51 "2013-08-16T23:19:28Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > The silly people are the ones who believe a stable currency can be maintained with fiat money. ALL POLITICIANS LIE! It’s in their nature to promise goodies to various constituents. Gold has thousands of years in providing, at least for longer periods, of stable prices. It’s durable, relatively rare, easy to work with. Eventually politicians figure out how to devalue it, and not run a stable economy. Well, that was my point. A gold-standard paper currency doesn’t protect you against currency debasement. It just means they have to control the gold market and make it illegal for private citizens to actually get their hands on gold. If you think that gold will be a stable store of value in the upcoming years compared to fiat currencies, then as of today you are still allowed to go out and exchange your fiat currency for gold, and put the gold bars anyplace safe. The history of the gold standard shows that whenever there is a crisis like a war or depression, the first thing the politicians do is stop redeeming paper for gold. So what’s the difference between a currency that can only be converted to gold when it’s convenient for the government, and a fiat currency? Again, you can covert your paper money to gold today, anywhere in America. There are lots of places willing to take paper money for gold. There is a free market for gold. If we were on the gold standard, there could never be a free market for gold, because the government wouldn’t allow it. Fiat currency is exactly the same as gold standard currency, the only difference is that you don’t need the government to redeem your paper, you can do so on the free market. And if the fiat currency starts to collapse relative to gold, well, that’s a feature of fiat currency! It’s a GOOD thing, because it tells people what is happening–the currency is being devalued. We don’t have to pass a law that says an ounce of gold is worth exactly $35, we can let the free market decide how much a dollar is worth. And if you don’t like it, you don’t have to use dollars as money, except in the rare cases where you have to pay your taxes. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/52 "2013-08-16T23:24:57Z")
Plus, there’s not enough gold in the world to use it for money. But arguing with goldbugs is boring- let’s get back to superheroes. How much can a big construction helicopter carry? Maybe we don’t need to steal “all” the gold in Ft Knox, just a pallet of it. What are gold pallets made from, anyway? Steel? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/53 "2013-08-16T23:59:32Z")
All money is fiat money. The value of Gold was fixed, set, by fiat. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/54 "2013-08-17T01:37:05Z")
The thing is: other than the concern about securing and accounting for government property, so what if there’s X greater or Y lower or Z unnacounted for amount of gold in the vaults in Kentucky or the various FRBs? The value of the money in circulation is NOT tied to the amount of the gold reserves. Hasn’t been in a looooong time. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/55 "2013-08-17T02:25:34Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Back when we still pretended to be on the gold standard there was no free market for gold. Yes, it was illegal for American citizens to own gold except jewelry. Actually it was the abandonment of the the domestic gold standard in 1933 that made the possession of more than 2 ounces of gold illegal. Before then it was perfectly legal to own as much gold as you wanted. Indeed, fears that gold hoarders were keeping money out of circulation and thus depressing the money supply was the main reason for abandoning the domestic gold standard. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/56 "2013-08-17T16:34:01Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > … fiat money. Do I have to use Fiat money? Can I be paid in Teslas instead? If not, I’d settle for Corvettes. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/57 "2013-08-17T16:43:36Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > But at the same time some kind of regular independent audit could and should be done. Beyond the fallacy that gold is a magical store of value (the historical record is pretty clear that currencies are much more stable after abandoning gold standards than before), regular audits and assays of gold necessarily destroy a small fraction of that gold. The only purpose such regular checks will serve is reducing the amount of gold you wish to preserve. Cursory checks are certainly warranted, just as an inventory check as with all property. But full assays to verify to quality and audit the gold should also be necessarily infrequent (on the order of decades, if at all) at the very least to prevent destroying the stuff you want to safeguard. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/58 "2013-08-19T19:28:25Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > Is there any gold in Fort Knox? Yes. There is also a duck swimming in it. ---
**Author:** ![Gilbert1984](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Gilbert1984](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gilbert1984)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/59 "2013-08-19T19:39:18Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Can you start a tank without keys? Of course! All you need is a few(\*) guys to give it a bump start and off you go - where ‘few’ is some arbitrarily large number ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403/60 "2013-08-19T19:41:46Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Yes. There is also a duck swimming in it. Somewhere in that vault, I hope there is [one of these](http://www.ecrater.com/p/15580631/disney-classics-scrooge-mcduck-money?gps=1&id=52211034499) sitting on one of the stacks of gold bars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-gold-in-fort-knox/666403.md?page=4)