# Is there any hope for my lawn? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2007, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500 "2007-03-26T03:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/1 "2007-03-26T03:51:40Z")
So here’s the backstory. This will be our third summer at this house. Year 1…Lawn looked GREAT, I didn’t put any fertilizers down on it until at least the middle of the summer (looked great before that too) and they didn’t appear to make a big difference. I attribute it to watering the crap out of it. Towards the end of summer I started noticing a bit of creeping charlie, but there wasn’t much so I didn’t worry about it that much :smack: Year 2…I put down a fertilzer that was supposed to kill the creeping charlie, I put it down in early spring before it showed up like your supposed to. I think I angered it. My the end of summer I think I had more creeping charlie then grass. But from a distance, it still _looked_ green. Once you got up close it really looked bad. The odd thing is, it’s in both my front and back yard, which arn’t connected (well they are, but not really). I continued with the Scotts 1,2,3 program and it did nothing. If it makes a difference, we had a baby that summer and I really didn’t have as much time on my hands to take care of the grass as I wanted to. Year 3…The snow is gone, the growing season hasn’t started yet, but the lawn already looks awful, a LOT of brown/dead grass in there. I’m worried the creeping charlie suffocated the grass and I’m worried I’m going to have nothing but weeds this year. So my question is, is there any think I, Joe Homeowner, can do. I should I call in a lawn service and let them take care of it? I assume in order to have any chance and getting rid of the charlie, I need to call them very soon as it’s starting to warm up around here. As a side question, do lawn services offer anything that can kill the creeping charlie and make my lawn look great that’s also safe for dogs? Sucks if they don’t becuase then I can only do the front lawn and/or see if they can coordinate with MY schedule since I can get rid of the dogs from Fridays to Sundays if I have to. And why dosen’t this creeping charlie creep into the neighbors yard, are lawns are connected, but I think they either have a service or a different type of grass as there’s a distinct line between our property and theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/2 "2007-03-26T04:14:13Z")
Well, I had to Google to find out what creeping charlie is. IME, this is not a problem in Texas. I also found this link to a UMN article on [controlling creeping charlie with Borax](http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h519borax.html). ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/3 "2007-03-26T04:48:25Z")
2, 4 D should do the trick. 2, 4 D (a.k.a. Ortho Weed-B-Gone a.k.a. Agent Orange) has no biological activity in monocots (grasses). It’ll kill everything on the lawn except the lawn. Keep the dog away until you water, though. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/4 "2007-03-26T06:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=Washoe] 2, 4 D should do the trick. 2, 4 D (a.k.a. Ortho Weed-B-Gone a.k.a. Agent Orange) has no biological activity in monocots (grasses). It’ll kill everything on the lawn except the lawn. Keep the dog away until you water, though. [/QUOTE] 1. A 2,4 D is _NOT_, repeat _NOT_ Agent Orange. Agent Orange was primarily poorly refined 2, 4, 5 T, a very different beast, especially with respect to dioxane levels. 2. 2,4, D does have biologicla activity in monocots. The activity level is lower, but rest assured that if you hit your lawn with enough 2,4, D or enough treatments it will die. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/5 "2007-03-26T07:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] 1. A 2,4 D is _NOT_, repeat _NOT_ Agent Orange. Agent Orange was primarily poorly refined 2, 4, 5 T, a very different beast, especially with respect to dioxane levels. … [/QUOTE] Only if “primarily” means 50%, > [@](#): > > [Agent Orange Brief](http://www1.va.gov/agentorange/page.cfm?pg=2) > Prepared by the Environmental Agents Service (131) > A1 VA Central Office, Washington, DC 20420 August 2005 > > AGENT ORANGE - GENERAL INFORMATION > > What is Agent Orange? > > … Agent Orange was a mixture of chemicals containing equal amounts of the two active ingredients, 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. … > [@](#): > > [Background on Agent Orange](http://www.dow.com/commitments/debates/agentorange/background.htm) > > … The defoliant — sprayed between 1965-1970 — was a 50/50 mixture of the herbicides 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D. U.S. military research developed Agent Orange, and the product was formulated based on military specifications. … [Rainbow Herbicides](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_herbicides) Agent Orange … a roughly 1:1 mixture of … 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T Agent Purple … chemically similar to … Agent Orange … a mixture of … 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. **Agent Pink’s only active ingredient was 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T)** **Agent Green’s only active ingredient was 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T)** Agent Blue is a mixture of two arsenic-containing compounds, Na-dimethyl arsenate (Na cacodylate) and dimethyl arsinic acid (cacodylic acid) Agent White is a 4:1 mixture of 2,4-D and Picloram (also known as Tordon 101) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/6 "2007-03-26T07:55:34Z")
Hmm, my understanding was that agent Organe was primarily 2,4, 5 T with a minor addition of 2,4 D. Guess I was misinformed. However the main point still stands: 2,4 D =/= Agent Orange, particuarly WRT the harmful effects human effects which were laregly due to dioxanes from 2,4,5 T. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/7 "2007-03-26T12:36:40Z")
[Dr Cox Whistle] Getting off Topic here[/Dr Cox] [QUOTE=Blake] 2) 2,4, D does have biologicla activity in monocots. The activity level is lower, but rest assured that if you hit your lawn with enough 2,4, D or enough treatments it will die. [/QUOTE] What will die, the creeping charlie or the grass? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/8 "2007-03-26T13:32:37Z")
Boron is persentent in the soil and if you apply too much you won’t be growing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-my-lawn/397500/9 "2007-03-26T17:51:42Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] What will die, the creeping charlie or the grass? [/QUOTE] Just follow the instructions on the bottle to the letter and you should be able to eradicate the creeping charlie with minimal or no damage to the lawn. I’ve even used the stuff way more than is recommended with no harm to the grass. I’ve used it on Marathon, tenefolia, other Bermuda grasses, red fescue, several different species of bamboo, you name it. I’ve even used two or three times the number of applications indicated during a given time frame with good results. I personally like the sealed, disposable application bottles myself. You just hook the hose to the bottle and spray. When the bottle is empty, you just throw it away. Some veterinarians feel that the rise in canine lymphomas seen in the past 40 years is due to exposure to 2, 4, D-treated lawns, so just to be on the safe side I always take a shower after using it and wash all the clothes I was wearing.