# Is there any hope for the Democrats in 2020? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415 "2016-10-01T21:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/41 "2016-10-04T10:09:22Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > He believes that America is on the brink of collapse and that he alone can fix it. No, he doesn’t. You’re mixing up what he says with what he actually believes. Someone who thought he was the only one who could fix America wouldn’t have talked about delegating all his power to the VP. Trump is a demagogue. He is saying what he thinks is necessary to be elected. Just like he lies about what he’ll do as a businessman. Now, that doesn’t mean Trump won’t run again. He might, if he thinks he can win. But it’s entirely about ego for him. Not that I’m sure he’ll still be even as coherent as he currently is in four more years. He does seem less coherent than we was in the past. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/42 "2016-10-04T10:15:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I always say that Hillary Clinton is the only semi-decent, old-school Republican running. Hell, she used to be a Republican until she met Bill and he is a Southern Democrat, not a liberal activist on the fringe. They each have their own integrity issues but they have never been radical. Hillary Clinton is very similar to Mitt Romney and it would work equally well if she went back to putting an R next to her name. Maybe if this were still the 1990s. Now being a even being a feminist is disqualifying for the R ticket. And she’s more liberal than that. She is indeed moderate, but moderate in this day and age is on the left. Bush is too liberal for the Republican Party now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/43 "2016-10-04T10:28:55Z")
But if the Democrats aggressively try to dominate the center to center right, where does that leave progressives? Seems like it’s not just conservatives in danger of not having a home. ---
**Author:** ![triton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@triton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/triton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/44 "2016-10-04T10:48:13Z")
Check out Purple America status… The only space not married to opposition is the heart of Texas… the place that generates the most gross national income for another state. Largest contributor to other state functionality. LEAVE THEM ALONE. You are trying to win a war. War is known to be the wrong way. There is no right or wrong there is life and quality of such. The dynamics between perceptional realities differ from person to person. Ultimately our job is to maintain balance and keep compromise with sanity. If you don’t like something that is only changeable by the damaging of the quality of life for another person you should just forget you were disappointed and walk the F on. The imposition of belief systems is the sole reason war began and violence is bred here. No one is in danger of extinction as long as we maintain an oppositional balance. We are rulers of the world God put us in. If we fail we go to hell… I have a feeling its not as fun as 80s hair metal music makes it sound. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/45 "2016-10-04T10:58:07Z")
One certainly cannot argue with _that_. ---
**Author:** ![triton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@triton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/triton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/46 "2016-10-04T11:15:16Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Liberals are breathing a sigh of relief after Trump’s latest deranged tweets, along with revelations about his past showing him to be a white collar criminal. > > But they should be tearing their hair out. HRC is only three points ahead in the [latest poll](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/30/politics/fox-news-poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-2016-election/), which has a margin of error of, um, three points. > > In other words, Trump is clearly winning on the issues. If he weren’t such a blatantly racist, sexist, lying, cheating, uniformed, uneducated idiot, who compels huge portions of the electorate to vote against him regardless of the issues, he would win this election. > > What does that say about the future of the US? Even with the Trump disaster, there is virtually no chance of the Dems getting a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, which means that the Republicans will again adopt a policy of obstruction, and oppose everything HRC tries to do, even if they privately agree that it would help the country. Which means that in 2020, they will again be able to point to the lack of progress in the US, and blame President Clinton for it. And the Fox News viewers and dittoheads will lap it up, as always. > > So how hard will it be for the Republicans to run somebody who has spent four years honing Trump’s populist-idiot message, but who doesn’t have all of Trump’s history of lying, cheating, and chiseling; who doesn’t make racist or sexist tweets at 3 AM; and who has heard of the nuclear triad? > > Coupled with their voter suppression techniques, I don’t see how they can fail to win in 2020, probably in a landslide, which also means that they will again be in a position to gerrymander the Congressional districts to maintain their majority in Congress for at least another ten years. > > Is there any hope that I’m wrong? Trump is the face… The real brain is hidden and watching us all. Bwahahahahahaha… Look into the conspiratorial evaluation. All and every past theory exists as explanations to simply ONE conspiracy. DUN DUN DUN… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/47 "2016-10-04T11:36:29Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > HRC is only three points ahead in the [latest poll](http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/30/politics/fox-news-poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-2016-election/), which has a margin of error of, um, three points. > > In other words, Trump is clearly winning on the issues. I think the simpler explanation is that the country has become exceedingly partisan, so a scarecrow with a Republican badge pinned to it would get close to half the country’s vote. Also the race is virtually always on a knife edge at this point…it would be interesting to speculate on why. Certainly it’s great for the news networks. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/48 "2016-10-04T11:44:00Z")
Yeah, but while partisans are getting crazier, independents are becoming more and more numerous. You figure any Democrat will get 38%, any Republican 38%. The independents decide who wins, although base turnout can make a difference if independents are closely divided. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/49 "2016-10-05T00:13:33Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > What are you responding to? I can’t figure out what “male talk” you’re referring to; no one has mentioned the sex of any candidates unless I missed it. I was responding to these two: > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I hate to say it, but there are a lot of people in this country – both men and women – who aren’t truly comfortable with a woman as President. […] I spend time on another forum where a surprisingly large percentage of the membership actually believe it was a mistake to give women the vote. That tells you something.[…] > I’m not sure she will even try to be more than a one-term president. I hope she is, but I think if she perceives the work has a better chance to continue under younger white male steerage, she may give over. I hate that it’s the case, but it may be the case. > [@bengangmo](#): > > A single term from Clinton, then handover to Kaine who would run as essentially an “incumbent”. > Young, male, clever – and if it is a “good” presidency from Clinton then the right experience. Unless I misread these passages, they’re saying the best way for Democrats to win elections is to run men. I find this, in the 21st century, frankly bizarre. Women have fought their way to national leadership and will never accept being marginalized ever again. ---
**Author:** ![sarahdonahue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@sarahdonahue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sarahdonahue)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/50 "2016-10-05T05:47:06Z")
Especially since I doubt Clinton will be a popular POTUS ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/51 "2016-10-05T05:56:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, but while partisans are getting crazier, independents are becoming more and more numerous. You figure any Democrat will get 38%, any Republican 38%. The independents decide who wins The problem is, Independent =/= Moderate. I think quite a few of those independents are already represented in that 76%. Many are very reliable Republican and Democratic voters, they just hate admitting it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/52 "2016-10-05T06:10:42Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > The problem is, Independent =/= Moderate. I think quite a few of those independents are already represented in that 76%. Many are very reliable Republican and Democratic voters, they just hate admitting it. 🙂 No, independents are not moderates, and many of them are also in one or the other camp. But given that Presidential races are always close, the genuine swing voters still do decide things, unless your base strategy is extremely effective, as it was in 2004 and 2012. But I’m not seeing much evidence in this race that turnout will be decisive. I think this is a classic, “as independents go, so goes the nation” race. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/53 "2016-10-05T09:34:41Z")
Anyone who’s still genuinely undecided is either bone-ignorant or apathetic, sorry. Yet that’s who we always count on to decide our elections. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/54 "2016-10-05T11:19:53Z")
All the undecideds will do the right thing and support Gary Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/55 "2016-10-05T19:44:21Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > handover to Kaine who would run as essentially an “incumbent”. > **Young** , male, clever – When did 62 start being characterized as young? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/56 "2016-10-06T04:07:41Z")
Kaine’s neither young nor old, really in the sweet spot between energy and experience. I do find it interesting though that just eight years ago a 72-year old candidate was a worry, but now both major party candidates are 70(or just short of 70) and it’s no big deal. Heck, Reagan was 70 and they thought he should commit to just one term because of his age. Jerry Brown should run in 2020. He doesn’t seem to have lost a step to me. John McCain can be his opponent, with Bob Dole as VP. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415/57 "2016-10-06T06:09:26Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > When did 62 start being characterized as young? One of the GOP’s “young guns” was [70 years old](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/one-of-the-gop-young-guns-is-70-years-old/258281/). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-the-democrats-in-2020/767415.md?page=2)