# Is there any land you can still buy (or otherwise peaceably acquire) to form your own country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970 "2014-10-21T01:29:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/21 "2014-10-21T18:24:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It’s usually against the law to pretend your living room is an independent country, or to make up flags, or to call yourself King of Livingroomia. > > Where you get in trouble is when you declare that since you’re an independent country you don’t have to pay taxes, or obey laws about selling cocaine, or comply with noise ordinances, or pay parking tickets. I assume you meant there to be a “not” in the first sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/22 "2014-10-21T18:39:18Z")
Yes. It’s NOT against the law in the United States to pretend your living room is an independent country, nor is it against the law for you to declare your couch fort an independent country while your sister declares the easy chair fort a separate independent country. Nor is wearing a crown, or telling everyone to call you Princess Sparklepony the First. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/23 "2014-10-21T18:59:38Z")
Which reminds me: did you ever get any money from the county for that wrongful arrest? ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/24 "2014-10-21T19:13:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which reminds me: did you ever get any money from the county for that wrongful arrest? Me? ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/25 "2014-10-21T22:35:15Z")
There’s lots of unclaimed territory in Antarctica just waitin’ to be settled. As long as you like the taste of penguinburgers. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/26 "2014-10-21T22:40:23Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > As long as you like the taste of penguinburgers. _What?_ Eat my subjects? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/27 "2014-10-21T22:41:10Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > There’s lots of unclaimed territory in Antarctica just waitin’ to be settled. As long as you like the taste of penguinburgers. It’s “claimed” by international treaty as being more or less unclaimable. Australia or somebody would boot you out. If they didn’t, the US & Russia probably wouldn’t mind doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/28 "2014-10-21T22:41:34Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Me? No. Let’s try that again: > [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes. It’s NOT against the law in the United States to… > \ …[wear] a crown, or [tell] everyone to call you Princess Sparklepony the First. [my edits] > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which reminds me: did you ever get any money from the county for that wrongful arrest? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/29 "2014-10-21T22:52:49Z")
Picture the Chief of Police writing the above words on the blackboard 100 times. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/30 "2014-10-22T05:00:03Z")
You’d only need 1 Billionaire to stage a hostile takeover of Pitcairn Island. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/31 "2014-10-22T05:18:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. Let’s try that again: Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/32 "2014-10-22T09:48:42Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s “claimed” by international treaty as being more or less unclaimable. Australia or somebody would boot you out. If they didn’t, the US & Russia probably wouldn’t mind doing it. Antarctica is claimed as in actually claimed, and the same bits are claimed by more than one country. It is definitely an issue, just not an issue that people have wanted to spend much money on. AIR The international treaty is that the various claimants aren’t going to station military, build borders, or do anything destructive like atomic bomb tests down there. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/33 "2014-10-22T10:25:10Z")
There is actually [a substantial piece of Antarctica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land) that [hasn’t been claimed by anyone](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Antarctic_Region.png). But a.) [no one will recognize anybody claiming that area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System) (or any other Antarctic territory) and b.) [it’s in bloody Antarctica.](http://photolibrary.usap.gov/AntarcticaLibrary/MidThumbs/POLIEWALK.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/34 "2014-10-22T14:56:47Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Oops. That’s okay. Apparently it was a bad joke. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/35 "2014-10-27T00:52:51Z")
Freedom loving businessmen try this from time to time. [Robert Vesco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Vesco), accused of securities fraud and later drug trafficing by the US government, attempted to buy the island of Barbuda from Antigua during the 1970s. The [Caruana-Cuntrera clan](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mafia-buys-up-its-own-island-in-the-caribbean-1495667.html), hailing from Sicily, allegedly purchased 60% of the island of Aruba, though unlike Vesco they did not try to arrange sovereignty: they would have been satisfied with political control. Vesco died outside of prison. Pasquale Cuntrera and Alfonso Caruana were not as fortunate. > **[The Rothschilds of the Mafia on Aruba | Transnational Institute](https://www.tni.org/en/publication/the-rothschilds-of-the-mafia-on-aruba)** > > "A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former... > **[Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia clan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuntrera-Caruana_Mafia_clan)** > > The Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia clan (Italian pronunciation: \[kunˌtrɛrakaruˈaːna\]) was a Mafia clan of the Cosa Nostra and held a key position in the illicit drug trade and money laundering for Cosa Nostra in the 1980s and 1990s. The Italian press baptized the clan as "The Rothschilds of the Mafia" or "The Bankers of Cosa Nostra". > Italian prosecutors described the Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia clan as an "international holding ... a holding which secures certain services for the Sicilian Cosa Nostra as a wh... So to answer the OP’s question, if you have a cool $200 million on tap have your people talk to my people. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/36 "2014-10-27T08:53:08Z")
In 1846, James Brooke persuaded the Sultan of Brunei to make him Rajah of Sarawak. His family maintained their status for over a century. The Clunies-Ross family acquired title to the Cocos Islands in 1886. > **[White Rajahs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rajahs)** > > The White Rajahs were a dynastic monarchy of the British Brooke family, who founded and ruled the Raj of Sarawak, located on the north west coast of the island of Borneo, from 1841 to 1946. The first ruler was Briton James Brooke. As a reward for helping the Sultanate of Brunei fight piracy and insurgency among the indigenous peoples, he was granted the province of Kuching, which was known as Sarawak Asal (Original Sarawak) in 1841 and received independent kingdom status. > Based on descent throug... > **[Clunies-Ross family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands)** > > The Clunies-Ross family were the original settlers of the Cocos (Keeling) Islands, a small archipelago in the Indian Ocean. From 1827 to 1978, the family ruled the previously uninhabited islands as a private fiefdom, initially as terra nullius and then later under British (1857–1955) and Australian (1955–1978) sovereignty. The head of the family was usually recognised as the resident magistrate, and was sometimes styled as the "King of the Cocos Islands"; a title given by the press. > John Cluni... That’s not likely to happen today. Any democratic government would lose the next election if they parted with any territory. Your best bet would be to find some dictator who could be bribed to go along with your scheme. Preventing him from welching on the deal after he cashed the check would be problematic, though. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/37 "2014-10-27T13:30:57Z")
Only fifty countries have signed the Antarctica treaty, though. Play your cards right and you might get recognition from the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/38 "2014-10-27T14:16:26Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > That’s not likely to happen today. Any democratic government would lose the next election if they parted with any territory. Well, Brunei is still not democratic, but now has jillions of dollars and is unlikely to give up additional territory. You could probably get the governments of Oman or Yemen to cede bits of the Rub’ al Khali if you offered enough money. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/39 "2014-10-27T14:19:37Z")
Would countries with large amounts of poor be vulnerable to a peaceful takeover? An example might be Kenya. Several billionairs could go in along with some charismatic speakers such as Obama for instance and through a combination of bribery and campaining win the support of the people and the existing military. With grandiose plans for industry, healthcare, housing, agriculture and infrastructure I can see this as not being so far fetched. I don’t see it being much different than the communist push we saw in the 50’s and 60’s throughout south and central America as I doubt everyone would join peacefully but I think it is a viable possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970/40 "2014-10-27T21:03:05Z")
This is speculative, but our ambitious billionaires could model themselves on Hong Kong (one country, two systems) or Singapore (a city state which peaceably separated from Malaysia). My favored candidate for a [del]failed state[/del] utopian paradise is [the Western Sahara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara). It’s basically unviable on its own, but they don’t want to be ruled by Morocco. Surely the [del]terrorists, thugs and colonialists[/del] resident politicians would be willing to part with a sliver of it, if a strong case could be made [del]with bribery[/del] for freedom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-land-you-can-still-buy-or-otherwise-peaceably-acquire-to-form-your-own-country/701970.md?page=3)