# Is there any law under which the White House dinner party crashers could be prosecuted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105 "2009-11-27T06:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/21 "2009-11-27T21:28:46Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Why should these people be prosecuted? > > I hate situations like this. The authorities fuck up, so then instead of bowing their heads in shame they just get madder and try to get vengeance on the people who made them look silly. Except that being made to look silly is harmless, while a felony conviction can ruin a life. As mentioned, it depends on WHAT did they did to fool security – if indeed they provided false information in order to obtain a benefit not due them, that _ **may** _ be an offense in itself. But it probably won’t get to the felony level, not worth giving them the extra publicity they crave, it COULD be a confusion/oh-shit-joke’s-gone-too-far-to-back-out-now situation, after all. The thing is it works both ways: Upon a security breach – category “stupid” as opposed to malicious – anyone found asleep at the wheel at security can and should be publicly pilloried and disciplined and the Fear Of God put into their coworkers, of course; BUT at the same time you want to deter casual jackassery, so you need to make clear that even “merely” poking the system for shits and giggles will have consequences. (In that line of thinking: Boy, that tax audit next year is going to be just _ **epic** _… 😃 ) As to how did they get that far if truly uninvited, there have been comments going around for years now that various agencies that were moved into the Homeland Sec umbrella from their historic home departments, such as FEMA, SecServ, Coast Guard, have faced some issues of loss of organizational efficency due to interference from the mother-agency’s bureaucracy. May be something to that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/22 "2009-11-27T21:45:01Z")
> [@Livardo](#): > > The AWs lawyer put out a statement saying that they in fact had been invited. They’re due to appear on Larry King this Monday so we’ll see what they say about that. I don’t see how there can be any question about that. The White House put out a [press release](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/expected-attendees-tonights-state-dinner) with the guest list and they’re not on the list. Plus they were smart enough not to try to sit down for dinner. As there was no place set for them, it would have been quite obvious at that point that they were gate-crashers. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/23 "2009-11-27T21:50:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Since [Maxim Vengerov](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Vengerov) is a violinist, I’m assuming **jjimm** was fondling a [Stradivarius violin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius). We hope, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![kdeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b487fb/32.png) [@kdeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kdeus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/24 "2009-11-27T22:15:05Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Why should these people be prosecuted? These people should be prosecuted because One Does Not Mess with the Security Surrounding the President of the United States. Name another job where you must be in contact with hundreds of thousands of strangers, and almost 10% of your predecessors were assassinated. This is not funny or cute. VIP Security is (I imagine) a huge challenge, with being wrong in either direction being a major mistake. It only makes the Secret Service’s job harder if “Crashing the State Dinner” has the same consequences as being in the park after sunset. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/25 "2009-11-27T22:22:36Z")
> [@kdeus](#): > > These people should be prosecuted because One Does Not Mess with the Security Surrounding the President of the United States… Why not? And they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/26 "2009-11-27T23:10:36Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Did any agent or the rep from the Social Secretary’s office actually ask them point blank “Were you invited?” or “Are you on the guest list?”? I have a mental image of staff just politely asking their names and trying to find them a on list. If they never actually had to come out and say the words “We were invited” then it’s not really lying to a federal agent, is it? Yor are asking the wrong guy… I saw some anchor on the NBC National News ask a talking head the same question that the OP asked, and I posted what the talking head said he thought was most likely. (my second paragraph was all my personal opinion). * * * As far as why this couiple should be prosecuted, I think if they indeed lied point-blank to a Federal Agent, it is commiting a slam dunk felony, the same as if you or I lied to a Fed. about ANYTHING. The law is the law. Why should the intent of the lie matter? If I lie to a customs agent about a bottle of Absinthe I smuggle back to the US, will they just let it slide because I had no malicious intent? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/27 "2009-11-28T00:03:33Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Why should these people be prosecuted? Because they intentionally did something that they knew was illegal. They’re adults, they know that you cannot just walk into the White House into a high security situation because you want to. Even if you do dress up and act the part of someone who belongs, even if you are being trailed by a camera crew from the Bravo network. We don’t give criminals a pass just because someone _could_ have prevented their crime but failed to do so. > [@garygnu](#): > > Why not? And they weren’t. Because it’s a part of the social contract of being a responsible citizen and a decent person. You don’t distract a cop who is directing traffic. You don’t harass a utililty worker who is up in a cherry picker working on a power line. You don’t menace school crossing guards. When someone’s job is bigger and carries more import than your petty aspirations or complaints or whatever, you don’t mess with them. When their job _directly_ relates to the stability and security of the entire nation (because an assault on the White House or the President would wreck absolute havoc on our fragile economy, for one thing) then you should especially think beyond your selfishness and recognize that you need to stay away. But that goes over the heads of people like the Salahis. The picture painted of them by their court records alone say that they’re a couple of spoiled, selfish brats with no ethical center. They sued his mother until she relinquished control of the family business then they tanked that business and put it into bankruptcy by way of profligate spending (a $150,000 car!) and defrauding and breaching contracts with customers and losing lawsuits over it. They somehow think that they’re entitled to whatever they want, whenever they want it, if it means that they have to destroy their family, or spend money that they don’t have, or break laws in order to get it. I have absolutely not a single shred of sympathy in the light of the potential of them both spending some time in a federal pokey. Not the tiniest iota. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/28 "2009-11-28T10:39:05Z")
The All-American way ? Make the law up as you go along. A very dangerous approach. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/29 "2009-11-28T20:18:18Z")
> [@kdeus](#): > > These people should be prosecuted because One Does Not Mess with the Security Surrounding the President of the United States. Name another job where you must be in contact with hundreds of thousands of strangers, and almost 10% of your predecessors were assassinated. > > This is not funny or cute. VIP Security is (I imagine) a huge challenge, with being wrong in either direction being a major mistake. It only makes the Secret Service’s job harder if “Crashing the State Dinner” has the same consequences as being in the park after sunset. I don’t get it. They obviously helped to strengthen security long-term. The more you prosecute people who demonstrate embarrassing holes in your security, the more holes you’re gonna have. That’s why it’s assinine to go after the “perpetrators” in such situations. (Reminds me of the person who “hacked” a government computer by putting ‘..’ in the URL.) Not only is it not fair to be punished for something that didn’t hurt anyone or anything except egos, it is only extremely counter-productive. > [@](#): > > But that goes over the heads of people like the Salahis. The picture painted of them by their court records alone say that they’re a couple of spoiled, selfish brats with no ethical center. They sued his mother until she relinquished control of the family business then they tanked that business and put it into bankruptcy by way of profligate spending (a $150,000 car!) and defrauding and breaching contracts with customers and losing lawsuits over it. Ok, well, that does paint them as douchebags. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/30 "2009-11-28T20:51:16Z")
If they were not invited, they did the Secret Service a favor. They showed that they are flawed and need some better procedures. They should not be prosecuted. they were not trying to attack the president. Let it go and do a better job. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/31 "2009-11-28T22:40:08Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If they were not invited, they did the Secret Service a favor. They showed that they are flawed and need some better procedures. They should not be prosecuted. they were not trying to attack the president. Let it go and do a better job. Exactly. Other people get paid to test security. If it was a news reporter crew, they would be lauded. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/32 "2009-11-29T00:44:28Z")
Apparently the wife’s claims of being a former Washington Redskins cheerleader and a Victoria’s Secret model are untrue. Being that she is a proven liar and veteran attention whore, I am certain she has a bright future on reality teevee… ---
**Author:** ![kdeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b487fb/32.png) [@kdeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kdeus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/33 "2009-11-29T02:43:22Z")
Why does One Not Mess With the Security Surrounding the President? 1. Presidents die violently. Of 43 individuals (Counting Cleveland as one person), 4 were assassinated and there have been twenty other [attempts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots). 2. Presidents must be in the public eye. Because of 1 & 2, Presidential security is a challenge. I imagine that fully prosecuting violators makes security easier by reducing the number of people willing to attempt to breach security (because of the high consequences). This reduces the chance of the SS having to deal with two incidents simultaneously. Also, anyone who would try to breach security may be treated as a serious threat, because they know, _everybody_ knows, that the Secret Service fully prosecutes every violator. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/34 "2009-11-29T03:03:19Z")
Oops, never mind. I had just added a smart ass comment, not realizing this was in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/35 "2009-11-29T03:16:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oops, never mind. I had just added a smart ass comment, not realizing this was in GQ. But it was a laugh out loud thread winner. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![destry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c67d28/32.png) [@destry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/destry)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/36 "2009-11-29T05:16:48Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Why should these people be prosecuted? > > I hate situations like this. The authorities fuck up, so then instead of bowing their heads in shame they just get madder and try to get vengeance on the people who made them look silly. Except that being made to look silly is harmless, while a felony conviction can ruin a life. This was a state dinner with the head of state of India, which is a bitter enemy of Pakistan. If he had been assassinated in the White House the political ramifications would have been tremendous. This is huge. Heads should roll. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/37 "2009-11-29T05:21:22Z")
The classy couple is now offering to sell their exclusive story to the media outlet that will shell out the most cash, and they say the bidding will start at $200,000. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/38 "2009-11-29T05:27:39Z")
> [@destry](#): > > This was a state dinner with the head of state of India, which is a bitter enemy of Pakistan. If he had been assassinated in the White House the political ramifications would have been tremendous. This is huge. Heads should roll. I hadn’t thought of that. The Prime Minister of India being assassinated inside the White House would spiral into the worst international crisis in decades and possiblely lead to war between India and Pakistan. Both US allies, both nuclear powers. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/39 "2009-11-29T05:51:18Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > The classy couple is now offering to sell their exclusive story to the media outlet that will shell out the most cash, and they say the bidding will start at $200,000. I think the federal government should prosecute them. Isn’t illegal to profit from a felony once you’re convicted? As well as the forementioned effect of discouraging future attempts at this kind of jackassery. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105/40 "2009-11-29T16:23:01Z")
Remember that the Secret Service is on the watch for someone who might hurt the president and not from a bunch of D-bags who are after publicity. This may change in the future. She wants to be in a “The Housewives of X” series? Isn’t that the show where all the women look like spoiled rotten overly inbred brats? Looks like she’ll be a good match. I can proudly say I have never seen a reality TV show unless you want to count blowing up stuff on Myth Busters. Blowing up stuff in the name of science is just awesome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-law-under-which-the-white-house-dinner-party-crashers-could-be-prosecuted/519105.md?page=3)