# Is there any legitimacy to the Sovereign Citizen argument?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-legitimacy-to-the-sovereign-citizen-argument/786097>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [May 7, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-legitimacy-to-the-sovereign-citizen-argument/786097 "2017-05-07T22:25:12Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 134

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**Author:** ![SarahWitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@SarahWitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SarahWitch)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-legitimacy-to-the-sovereign-citizen-argument/786097/134 "2017-11-25T06:32:02Z")

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> [@Shamozzle](#):
>
> So, I’ve been browsing through a series of fascinating Sovereign Citizen-themed videos on YouTube.
> 
> SC’s keep citing things like “Black’s Law Dictionary”, “Maritime Admiralty Law”, “Common Law”, “Corporate Law”, etc.
> 
> I was wondering, were the aforementioned laws ever the present and legitimate legal authority anywhere? If so, were they superseded and rendered null by updated legal code and thus the SC’s are behind the times?
> 
> Or, are those laws still sitting there on the books somewhere (so to speak) and technically in effect, but everyone in authority ignores them because they’re silly and akin to those old funny laws nobody cares about, like “Women Can’t Smoke on the Sidewalk on Thursdays”, etc.
> 
> Or is it a mix?
> 
> Do Sovereign Citizens’ actually have any legal claims considered legitimate by anyone who isn’t even remotely insane?
> 
> Thanks!

This is right down my street, since I’m the premier expert on American law, and where its legitimacy fails.  
To begin with, SC’s are _mutually_ in error with the US government; since both err in their legal arguments. The US government claims to derive its authority from the Constitution and international law, while SC’s likewise claim that the US government holds no authority over them.  
Both claims are false, since the supreme national authority in each state is the will of its respective People, as noted in the Constitution-- not as forming a single nation-state whose final authority rests with a republican government (since this would be not a democracy, but an oligarchy).  
So only the CSA had the correct legal argument: i.e. that each state is a separate nation-state unto itself, but supremely ruled by its respective _People_ (i.e. its citizen-voters). After all, that’s how we got the Constitution in the first place; and they didn’t _alter_ that status.  
So while SC’s are wrong, they’re not alone.

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