# Is there any major US city (pop \> 1M) that has a charming rural town within 30 minutes of it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708 "2018-04-19T14:26:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/41 "2018-04-19T19:49:27Z")
Thinking differently: From Seattle you can take a ferry to places across Puget Sound that are less developed. From the downtown dock you can get to [Bainbridge Island](http://www.wsdot.com/Ferries/Schedule/scheduledetailbyroute.aspx?route=sea-bi) in 35 minutes (close). From West Seattle you can get to Vashon Island in 10 minutes but the ferry terminal isn’t quickly accessible from the central area. Just don’t ask about wait times. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/42 "2018-04-19T20:04:42Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > South Orange, Maplewood, and Millburn, NJ all have charming downtowns, but no horses. Maplewood is especially charming. The quickest train would be 29 minutes (or shorter from the first two towns) to Midtown, Manhattan. You’re not going to get multi-acre plots, though, for less than $millions. Not much farmland around anymore, though. Very familiar with Millburn, used to live there. If Millburn isn’t a suburban town there’s no such thing. It’s a classic nice suburban town of a big city. So also being around an hour (realistically door to door) from jobs in Manhattan it’s become extremely expensive, another thing not typically associated with rural small town. And it has IMO/IME zero personality of its own, again like most suburban bedroom communities, nothing wrong with it necessarily but no way is it a rural town. Nor has it been in our lifetimes. The other two are even closer to Newark, all three single digit miles, another aspect making it a real stretch to call then rural IMO. There are nice places within 30 minutes of Manhattan though it’s stretch to include Millburn as 30 minutes (~35 if you live at the Millburn train station and work at NY Penn Station). But if willing to consider Millburn’s price range you could afford a nice (smaller of course) place in Hoboken, or someplace in Manhattan itself for that matter. But there are no rural towns anywhere near 30 minutes from Manhattan again unless you’d consider remoter parts of the City itself like the Rockaways or various inhabited islands, some of which the Census actually counts as rural. The literally 30 minutes part would still be difficult though if you have to get from those parts of the City to Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/43 "2018-04-19T20:06:00Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I also nominate St. Louis (despite the fact the city itself is only 350,000) The moment you leave the city limits you start hitting all sorts of farm communities where the population signs state only about 100 or so people are living there. I’m thinking ones with a main street and big enough to have a supermarket? Around 2-3K people. Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/44 "2018-04-19T20:09:41Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Thinking differently: From Seattle you can take a ferry to places across Puget Sound that are less developed. From the downtown dock you can get to [Bainbridge Island](http://www.wsdot.com/Ferries/Schedule/scheduledetailbyroute.aspx?route=sea-bi) in 35 minutes (close). From West Seattle you can get to Vashon Island in 10 minutes but the ferry terminal isn’t quickly accessible from the central area. > > Just don’t ask about wait times. I have coworkers that have to leave at around 4:00 to avoid a 20 mile commute taking over an hour. The Seattle area has serious geographic limitations and growth issues right now. Due to infrastructure issues and bodies of water which cause constrictions that have no detour. I live 5.6 miles away from my office downtime Seattle in a neighborhood called Ballard and right now at 1:02PM Google maps suggests that it will take 38 Min to drive that route. Vashon would take over an hour from my office, and about two hours at 4:30 today. This story may put some perspective on the current situation. > **[Seattle’s mega-commuters: We spend more time than ever traveling to work](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-mega-commuters-we-are-spending-more-time-than-ever-traveling-to-work/)** > > “I had no idea it was this insane,” Seattle newcomer Colleen Williams said about her 90-minute commute from Rainier Valley to Bellevue. The region’s growth of mega-commuters ranks among the top in the nation, writes FYI Guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/45 "2018-04-19T20:27:23Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I have coworkers that have to leave at around 4:00 to avoid a 20 mile commute taking over an hour. > > The Seattle area has serious geographic limitations and growth issues right now. Due to infrastructure issues and bodies of water which cause constrictions that have no detour. > > I live 5.6 miles away from my office downtime Seattle in a neighborhood called Ballard and right now at 1:02PM Google maps suggests that it will take 38 Min to drive that route. Vashon would take over an hour from my office, and about two hours at 4:30 today. > > This story may put some perspective on the current situation. > > [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-mega-commuters-we-are-spending-more-time-than-ever-traveling-to-work/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-mega-commuters-we-are-spending-more-time-than-ever-traveling-to-work/) I’m from Marysville, left in late 80s when there were less than 10K people there. You could smell cow manure at the high school. That’s probably where my small town mentality comes from. It’s run down a bit from what I’ve heard and also quintupled in size, so moving back is a no-go. Love Seattle, have some family there, but don’t want to live there or anywhere near there tbh. Too dreary weather wise. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/46 "2018-04-19T20:35:49Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t know anything about Ohio. I’ve heard of the cities of course, but literally my only exposure to them is Hot in Cleveland and WKRP, which of course doesn’t count. 😃 From people who have spent some time there, what are your impressions of the major cities (particularly Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinatti), and do they really have charming (in your opinion) rural towns within 30 minutes of downtown? Cleveland and Cincinnati are old industrial towns that are both going through a bit of a revival at the moment. Between Pittsburgh and Detroit there’s a string of cities (Youngstown, Cleveland, Sandusky, Toledo), so there’s a good deal of sprawl, but I’m sure you could find something. Cincinnati is a bit more isolated. Columbus was built around the Statehouse and never had the same level of industry. Ohio State is a big employer, and insurance is a big industry. The tech industry is probably a bit stronger, but it’s nowhere near the level of DC, Portland, Seattle, Austin, or anything in the entire state of California. I’m partial to Columbus myself, I do miss the weather on the east coast (we go from cold to hot to cold) but it’s a good city vibe without being impossible to get around. I know there are cute towns within 30 miles of downtown but I couldn’t name one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/47 "2018-04-19T20:52:05Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’m partial to Columbus myself, I do miss the weather on the east coast (we go from cold to hot to cold) but it’s a good city vibe without being impossible to get around. I know there are cute towns within 30 miles of downtown but I couldn’t name one of them. Yeah, found some searching the web. Pinkerington looks promising, zillow has some fantastic prices for what you get. Columbus seems to be criticized as being generic compared to the others (esp Cleveland), but I don’t care about that. The only criteria for the “big town” is that it have jobs, not be a s-hole, and have basic big city stuff you can’t get in the small town. It doesn’t have to be particularly cultured. I only willingly go into Philadelphia a couple times a year. Usually for dining or shopping, FWIW. I can really do without big cities 99% of the time, they make me uneasy. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/48 "2018-04-19T21:01:33Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t know anything about Ohio. I’ve heard of the cities of course, but literally my only exposure to them is Hot in Cleveland and WKRP, which of course doesn’t count. 😃 From people who have spent some time there, what are your impressions of the major cities (particularly Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinatti), and do they really have charming (in your opinion) rural towns within 30 minutes of downtown? Define charming? Lots of hick towns in Ohio but only a few charming towns IMHO. 😃 The town I grew up in Ohio was a charming town back in the day, today its a drug infested town due its proximity to Dayton and the heroin epidemic. The quaint hotels are now full of drug addicts just like Dayton was 25 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/49 "2018-04-19T21:16:18Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Define charming? Lots of hick towns in Ohio but only a few charming towns IMHO. 😃 The town I grew up in Ohio was a charming town back in the day, today its a drug infested town due its proximity to Dayton and the heroin epidemic. The quaint hotels are now full of drug addicts just like Dayton was 25 years ago. Good point. Obviously not any small down hit hard by the opioid epidemic. Charming is subjective. I can’t really tell you. I can only point to towns I know. Lancaster PA and especially the tiny towns surrounding it, like Strasburg. A main street with some cute shops and restaurants, friendly people, etc. One thing that struck me was everyone was so damn polite. I hadn’t experienced that in a while. Quirky things like horse and buggy’s are a plus but not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/50 "2018-04-19T21:28:22Z")
Since the OP appears to be most interested in recommendations for a place to live, let’s move this to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/51 "2018-04-19T21:43:13Z")
Golden, CO is about 25 minutes from downtown Denver. The metropolitan area of Denver, which does not include Golden is about 2.8 million. Golden’s population is about 21,000. Golden is not however immune to the rising cost of living, especially housing costs that Denver has experienced over the last 7+ years. But Golden is a quaint town with cool downtown area, with the Colorado School of Mines, and the Coors brewery nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/52 "2018-04-19T22:36:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And given that this is GQ, I would like to see a cite that _anything_ in New Jersey can be described as charming. Quite a lot of it actually. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/53 "2018-04-19T22:44:35Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Very familiar with Millburn, used to live there. If Millburn isn’t a suburban town there’s no such thing. It’s a classic nice suburban town of a big city. So also being around an hour (realistically door to door) from jobs in Manhattan it’s become extremely expensive, another thing not typically associated with rural small town. And it has IMO/IME zero personality of its own, again like most suburban bedroom communities, nothing wrong with it necessarily but no way is it a rural town. Nor has it been in our lifetimes. The other two are even closer to Newark, all three single digit miles, another aspect making it a real stretch to call then rural IMO. > > There are nice places within 30 minutes of Manhattan though it’s stretch to include Millburn as 30 minutes (~35 if you live at the Millburn train station and work at NY Penn Station). But if willing to consider Millburn’s price range you could afford a nice (smaller of course) place in Hoboken, or someplace in Manhattan itself for that matter. But there are no rural towns anywhere near 30 minutes from Manhattan again unless you’d consider remoter parts of the City itself like the Rockaways or various inhabited islands, some of which the Census actually counts as rural. The literally 30 minutes part would still be difficult though if you have to get from those parts of the City to Manhattan. I was really thinking about Maplewood, which even has a small grocery store right in the downtown area. It’s certainly suburban, not rural, but it’s pretty charming. The Rockaways are definitely more than 30 minutes from Manhattan by train, although I once did it in 23 minutes from the Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge (at 1 or 2 AM, at pretty high speed). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/54 "2018-04-19T22:55:51Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Quite a lot of it actually. We were in a few charming towns in Jersey when we were there. Very nice. > [@kunilou](#): > > Pretty much every major city between the Eastern Seaboard and the West Coast is close to something like what you want. In addition to St. Louis, Cleveland and the other Ohio cities, you can add Indianapolis, **Milwaukee** , Kansas City, Memphis, Nashville, etc. Chicago won’t quite make it (although you could probably make it in 60 minutes), and I’m not sure about Minneapolis, but there are certainly plenty of other opportunities. Milwaukee doesn’t have a million population but it’s overall metro area does. There are several rural towns in neighboring Waukesha, Washington, Ozaukee, and Racine counties that meet the OP’s description and are 30 minutes or less from downtown Milwaukee. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/55 "2018-04-19T23:04:05Z")
Again, I think you need to define your terms. There are only 9 US cities above 1M (NY, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadephia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, and Dallas. San Jose is close). But what is a “rural town”? Is it defined by population? density? % of revenue from agriculture? And by 30 minutes, is that an average (including rush hour?) or is that ~30 miles give or take? If you look at lists of “Best Small Towns,” most of them are within 2 hours of a major population center - but not necessarily one of the 10 listed above. But they may not be agricultural towns. > [@ftg](#): > > Thinking differently: From Seattle you can take a ferry to places across Puget Sound that are less developed. From the downtown dock you can get to [Bainbridge Island](http://www.wsdot.com/Ferries/Schedule/scheduledetailbyroute.aspx?route=sea-bi) in 35 minutes (close). From West Seattle you can get to Vashon Island in 10 minutes but the ferry terminal isn’t quickly accessible from the central area. Seattle is significantly smaller than 1M people (as specified). And these days, the farms are more than 30 minutes away. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/56 "2018-04-19T23:11:24Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Golden, CO is about 25 minutes from downtown Denver. The metropolitan area of Denver, which does not include Golden is about 2.8 million. Golden’s population is about 21,000. Golden is not however immune to the rising cost of living, especially housing costs that Denver has experienced over the last 7+ years. But Golden is a quaint town with cool downtown area, with the Colorado School of Mines, and the Coors brewery nearby. Uh, yeah. It really depends on what the OP means by small town. 60,000 (Lancaster PA) people is twice as many that live in our entire county (Summit County Colorado). Central City is about a half hour from the metro area of Denver. Some would consider it quaint and it is pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/57 "2018-04-19T23:24:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Pretty much every major city between the Eastern Seaboard and the West Coast is close to something like what you want. In addition to St. Louis, Cleveland and the other Ohio cities, you can add Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Memphis, Nashville, etc. Chicago won’t quite make it (although you could probably make it in 60 minutes), and I’m not sure about Minneapolis, but there are certainly plenty of other opportunities. Nothing in Texas would qualify. To get from one side of Houston, Dallas / Fort Worth, or San Antonio / Austin to the other side takes at least an hour, even in light traffic along the narrowest part of the city. Add in the 30 minutes specified by the OP and the commute is well over an hour one way in good traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/58 "2018-04-19T23:32:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > San Jose, CA is large-- both in population and in area. But you don’t have to drive very far before you’re in San Martin or San Juan Batista. I’d make note of Morgan Hill, too, but I’m not sure if that qualifies as “rural” anymore. San Jose is more accurately huge. It is the southern lobe of a megalopolis of almost eight million. Sure you can get to San Juan Bautista in thirty minutes – at two a.m. Then you can frolic with your cows until it is time to sit in traffic again. Yes, I just moved far far away and should have done it years ago, how did you guess? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/59 "2018-04-20T02:16:12Z")
I would guess the less whooped cities and states such as those of the midwest and southeast would be easier to find small rural towns near. Look for stable-population places, not techboom or sunbelt places. Good that you don’t mind cold winters, that gives you a much broader field. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708/60 "2018-04-20T02:21:53Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I live in north DE. Wilmington doesn’t have enough tech jobs. EVERY damn job offer I get is in center city Philly, which is absolutely unacceptable. I’ve worked in the Media area, that commute was better but still tiresome 5 days a week. > > I currently WFH 3 days a week, with an hour and half commute (both ways) 2 days a week. Not terrible, but I don’t expect that gig to last forever. What exactly are you looking for, employment-wise? I get emails for positions every day in Wilmington; there’s lots of financial services, specifically cards there. Also, what about up 202 to Malvern/Chesterbrook area? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And given that this is GQ, I would like to see a cite that _anything_ in New Jersey can be described as charming. One of the narrow open-grate truss _free_ bridges into PA? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-major-us-city-pop-1m-that-has-a-charming-rural-town-within-30-minutes-of-it/812708.md?page=4)