# is there any place in the Bible that defines marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492 "2012-09-02T23:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/41 "2012-09-04T00:22:39Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > And incidentally–there are an awful lot of people who claim to be Christians who are no such thing–in large part because they are divorced and remarried while their first spouse is still alive. But are we not all sinners? What is it about this particular sin that disqualifies one from being a Christian? A person who has told a lie or not kept the Sabbath can be a Christian, but a person who made the mistake of remarrying while their ex-spouse was still alive is automatically booted from the fold? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/42 "2012-09-04T01:14:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Steken** : > > Off-topic: Not only that – it doesn’t even tell us which kind of fruit it was that Eve ate. It just says “fruit.” Could have been an apple, could have been a grape, a fig, a pomegranate – who knows. Speculation abounds. No, it wasn’t any of those. It was a tree-of-knowledge fruit. I’ve eaten apples, grapes, figs, and pomegranates, and none of them has made me any smarter. Now, what does tree-of-knowledge fruit look like, or taste like? That I don’t know, and maybe it does resemble one of those other fruits, but it isn’t the same as any fruit we non-Edeners know of. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/43 "2012-09-04T01:17:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, it wasn’t any of those. It was a tree-of-knowledge fruit. I’ve eaten apples, grapes, figs, and pomegranates, and none of them has made me any smarter. Now, what does tree-of-knowledge fruit look like, or taste like? That I don’t know, and maybe it does resemble one of those other fruits, but it isn’t the same as any fruit we non-Edeners know of. [Maybe it was blueberries?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=your-brain-on-blueberries) ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/44 "2012-09-04T13:50:58Z")
Alessan: > [@](#): > > Maybe legally; culturally, I suspect that the post-Hellenic Jews considered monogamy the social norm. IIRC, the Hasmoneans (who despite their politics, were largely Hellenized), were all monogamous. Well, multiple marriages were rare amongst the hoi polloi, because quite frankly, supporting ONE wife and associated children is enough of a burden for one man, it’s the rare man who could handle more. It was more common amongst the aristocracy - perhaps not in Hasmonean times, and maybe that was in fact due to Hellenistic influence - but if so, it was a passing attitude, not one that was absorbed into the Jewish culture going forward. One famous case that post-dates the Hasmonean dynasty was Bustenai, the leader of the Babylonian Jewish community, who was married to both a Jewess from birth and to a Persian princess who had converted to Judaism. And, of course, the fact that Rabbi Gershom felt a need to ban the practice indicates that it must have still been practiced to some extent in his time. Voyager: > [@](#): > > Hoo hah! “I wasn’t unfaithful to you, dear - I was being serially faithful one woman at a time.” Spoken from the view of someone in a culture where wives EXPECT exclusivity. Obviously, when polygamy was permitted, a husband didn’t need to excuse to one wife his behavior with his other legitimate wives. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/45 "2012-09-04T13:56:33Z")
Thanks to everybody who answered. It’s been interesting. I don’t know why I thought there would be a simple yes/no answer lol. I am going to go with ‘no’, there is no place in the Bible that explicitly defines marriage as one man and one woman. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/46 "2012-09-04T15:08:15Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > I live in Maryland and I wonder why they aren’t going up against the crabbing industry as well. > People will tell me that the Bible defines marriage as one man and one woman while they are chowing down on a big pile of steamed crabs. There is the sin of _presumption_, doing something forbidden on the presumption that God will forgive you later so it’s OK to sin now. > [@Shmendrik](#): > > The opt-out clause is explicitly discussed in the Bible, so it doesn’t really seem to be a point of debate: > > The Onan story portrays him as marrying his brother’s widow because his father (Judah) told him to. It would seem likely that he or Judah wanted to avoid the social disgrace resulting from not going through with the marriage. Then, although he publicly married her, he privately refused to father a child who would carry on his brother’s name. As someone pointed out a while ago in an earlier thread - also, a “child of his brother” would qualify for half the father’s inheritance presumably. So if he fathered even one child, he’d be reducing his inheritance significantly. Add greed to the list, probably a big motivator. Of course, by striking him down, I assume God made sure that Onan’s kids split the entire inheritance. Of course, the bible also says (Leviticus) that a man lying with a man is an abomination and they shall be stoned, so I would suggest that implicit from that is the presumption that marriage does NOT include MM or FF. (or at least MM) However, as is the case with dietary laws, Sabbath, selling your daughter into slavery, etc, most Christians have seen fit to ignore old testament directives which are inconvenient and don’t fit their world-view. I’m not sure what the criteria are for the right to ignore Old Testament laws. (But manage to include the 10 Commandments regardless) There was the famous dispute between the traditional Jewish Christians and Paul, who was converting anyone and everyone and said that you did not have to be a Jew to be a Christian, so you did not have to follow Jewish law; hence the “circumcision doesn’t matter” discussion. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/47 "2012-09-04T15:26:59Z")
md2000: > [@](#): > > As someone pointed out a while ago in an earlier thread - also, a “child of his brother” would qualify for half the father’s inheritance presumably. So if he fathered even one child, he’d be reducing his inheritance significantly. Add greed to the list, probably a big motivator. In Jewish law (of course, the degree to which it applied pre-Moses is questionable, but since the concept is introduced in the story in question, let’s assume similarities) the brother who marries the dead brother’s wife is entitled to the dead brother’s portion of the inheritance. > [@](#): > > Of course, by striking him down, I assume God made sure that Onan’s kids split the entire inheritance. Onan died childless. All descendants of Judah come from his other three sons (one who had already been born before the Onan incident, and two later born of Tamar, after she tricked Judah himself into impregnating her). ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/48 "2012-09-04T17:17:42Z")
Do Christians ever ask themselves what was most important to Jesus? I was going to a Neo-Con school (Hillsdale College), and I remember having my mind blown when a pastor wrote topics on the board and asked us to put them in order of how much Jesus talked about each one. Twenty times as many commands about economics\* than religious practices or marriage or sex (some comments about straight relationships, zero on gay). \*\*(“Sharing with the poor”, “Giving away your possessions”, “Taking care of widows and orphans”… you don’t hear a lot of fundies railing against people who don’t share…) \* ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/49 "2012-09-04T17:46:36Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Do Christians ever ask themselves what was most important to Jesus? Sure. Fortunately, we have a pretty clear [answer](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-34&version=NIV). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/50 "2012-09-04T18:03:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sure. Fortunately, we have a pretty clear [answer](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-34&version=NIV). > > Regards, > Shodan Thanks for the good reminder. I especially love the last line (context: he was originally being grilled by ‘Teachers of the Law’): > [@](#): > > “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” > > When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” > > And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/51 "2012-09-04T18:23:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > However, as is the case with dietary laws, Sabbath, selling your daughter into slavery, etc, most Christians have seen fit to ignore old testament directives which are inconvenient and don’t fit their world-view. I’m not sure what the criteria are for the right to ignore Old Testament laws. (But manage to include the 10 Commandments regardless). This is a common meme, but there is a simple explanation that is often overlooked. Acts 15 describes the Council of Jerusalem, where James and the other church leaders were asked what parts of the Law of Moses were binding on non-Jewish Christians. They responded (in part): > [@](#): > > “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals **and from sexual immorality.** You will do well to avoid these things.” So eating shellfish is okay (as long as it isn’t bloody or strangled I guess). Wearing mixed fibers is okay. “Sexual immorality” is still a no-no. Now in modern times the church has argued about whether or not things like polygamy, divorce, or gay marriage, fall into the category of “sexual immorality.” But ‘picking and choosing’ from the OT law doesn’t really enter into it. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/52 "2012-09-04T19:14:13Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > This is a common meme, but there is a simple explanation that is often overlooked. Acts 15 describes the Council of Jerusalem, where James and the other church leaders were asked what parts of the Law of Moses were binding on non-Jewish Christians\*\* …snip > > …\*\*But ‘picking and choosing’ from the OT law doesn’t really enter into it. So Christians cherry-picking the OT is ok because Christians have been cherry-picking it since the beginning? Convenient. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/53 "2012-09-04T19:29:48Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > This is a common meme, but there is a simple explanation that is often overlooked. Acts 15 describes the Council of Jerusalem, where James and the other church leaders were asked what parts of the Law of Moses were binding on non-Jewish Christians. They responded (in part): > > So eating shellfish is okay (as long as it isn’t bloody or strangled I guess). Wearing mixed fibers is okay. And by the same logic, lying, stealing, and murder are also OK. Glad to know it. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/54 "2012-09-04T19:30:15Z")
So what is defined as “sexual immorality”? I guess that is the $64,000 Question. Either ANYTHING condemned in the old testament sexually (plus the New testament value-adds) qualifies, or none; or as **Fewl** points out, it’s still cherry-pickin’. I assume we can put down some basic and obvious guidelines - violating a promise (adultery in marriage) is immoral. Rape and other non-consent violations or hurting of a person are immoral (i.e. claiming to love him/her to get your end but lying about it). Self-indulgence for personal pleasure (i.e. casual sex) should be considered immoral. Beyond that, it’s all either subjective or cherry-picking. Sex during menses, man-on-man sex in a committed relationship, being forced to marry your brother’s widow, etc. are all just actions whose (im)morality is subjective and nobody’s business. It’s between you and you perceived maker. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/55 "2012-09-04T19:49:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, it wasn’t any of those. It was a tree-of-knowledge fruit. I’ve eaten apples, grapes, figs, and pomegranates, and none of them has made me any smarter. Now, what does tree-of-knowledge fruit look like, or taste like? That I don’t know, and maybe it does resemble one of those other fruits, but it isn’t the same as any fruit we non-Edeners know of. Could have been a magical, Eden-only limited-edition kind of apple, grape, fig or pomegranate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/56 "2012-09-05T00:08:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Were Adam and Eve even married? I think so after he divorced [Lilith](http://art.net/Studios/Poets/Schlong/lilithmyth.html). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/57 "2012-09-05T01:39:21Z")
grude: > [@](#): > > Were Adam and Eve even married? The Bible describes Eve as “Adam’s wife/woman”, (Genesis 4:1, 4:25), so I would imagine that in the eyes of G-d they were. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/58 "2012-09-05T17:42:14Z")
Books do not normally define words used within their own text, unless the author feels that there is a compelling reason to do so in order to improve intelligibility. Otherwise, words are presumed to carry their conventional meaning on the vernacular of the intended readership. When referring to marriage, the Bible simply assumed that it would be understood to mean whatever condition had general currency among the contemporary people of that culture. Within that culture, marriage was a formalized relationship between two people who, among other things, would produce offspring of their own genetic kind through a sexual process. The absence of an explanation to the contrary leaves it to mean exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492/59 "2012-09-06T03:12:55Z")
I had assumed the OP was wondering about polygamy, but now I am wondering if their question was in the context of same sex marriage? In that case I would say the intended audience the text was produced for understood implicitly that marriage was between a man and a woman/women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-place-in-the-bible-that-defines-marriage/633492.md?page=2)