# Is There Any Practical Way to Increase the Birthrate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2025, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655 "2025-01-06T20:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/381 "2025-04-03T00:24:35Z")
Free placebo birth control pills.. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/382 "2025-04-03T00:26:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The issue with that is that all they have to do is look at the news to see that “solving and mitigation” _isn’t_ going to happen. Solving is almost certainly already off the table, and it’s blatantly obvious that mitigation won’t be permitted to happen for an indefinite period. > > And the same goes for all sorts of _other_ environmental, resource, infrastructure and social issues. They are headed towards disaster, and going to come to some sort of head in the next few decades, and there’s effectively zero chance of doing anything about it. Any children born _now_ are going to be the ones who reap the whirlwind, after the ones making the decisions and enjoying the benefits are dead. And all that looking into the issues will do is confirm that. Thanks for demonstrating exactly the kind of doomerism we want to avoid. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So, what _are_ we supposed to do about it? Lie? Tell them to have kids and not worry about how much they’ll suffer? How about, we should teach them to assess situations realistically, rather than filling their head with doomer nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/383 "2025-04-03T00:52:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How about, we should teach them to assess situations realistically, rather than filling their head with doomer nonsense? I’m going to avoid debating what the realistic assessment is, but probably denying that there will be major problems is not being truthful. They know better. But civilization itself is not going to disappear. And unfair as it may be to those who will likely bear the worst impacts, any future grandkids and great grandchildren of mine living here will likely not suffer the most. I don’t believe doomerism though is a huge factor. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/384 "2025-04-03T01:58:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thanks for demonstrating exactly the kind of doomerism we want to avoid. Why? It’s not _moral_ to condemn children to a future of suffering out of some irrational desire to deny reality and “avoid doomerism”. They _are_ “doomed”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/385 "2025-04-03T02:01:48Z")
There are some serious problems going forward, but it’s absurd to pretend that it will be some hellscape. Even in the most dire scenarios, our kids and grandkids will have it much better than people did a century ago. And there was no need to warn kids back then that they’ll be condemned to a lifetime of suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/386 "2025-04-03T02:31:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why? It’s not _moral_ to condemn children to a future of suffering out of some irrational desire to deny reality and “avoid doomerism”. They _are_ “doomed”. I get that you’ve given up on society and any future for humanity. Really, I do - you make it VERY clear in thread after thread after thread. You aren’t objectively correct to have done so. The rest of us are going to go about having a society and living. You’re welcome to join us, if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/387 "2025-04-03T04:30:22Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There are some serious problems going forward, but it’s absurd to pretend that it will be some hellscape. Even in the most dire scenarios, our kids and grandkids will have it much better than people did a century ago. No? The most dire scenarios _do_ involve a collapse of industrialized civilization, or even agriculture. _Nobody_ knows how bad it will get because humanity has literally never existed under the upcoming climatic conditions. But the fact is we don’t even know if agriculture will be possible under the new climate, much less anything more than that. So the “most dire scenario” would in fact be the collapse of humanity _permanently_ to a hunter-gatherer society, with the associated loss of the great majority of our population and knowledge in the process. And even under more ecologically optimistic assumptions there’s still the depletion of resources, and the likelihood they’ll be living under some variety of fascist theocracy. I sure as hell wouldn’t expect a woman to be living as well as a century ago, or anyone not white and Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/388 "2025-04-03T05:04:34Z")
Agriculture is not going to “collapse”. It might get less efficient and will probably mean eating less meat. But every calorie that moves from meat to vegetable is a 10x efficiency gain, so there’s enormous room to absorb losses. Women had just gotten the right to _vote_ a century ago. The idea that we’d regress to anywhere close to that is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/389 "2025-04-03T05:36:47Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Agriculture is not going to “collapse”. It might get less efficient and will probably mean eating less meat. Again, _we don’t know_ if it will or not, because humanity has never existed in a “hothouse” climate. Agriculture may simply no longer be possible, depending on how unstable the weather is. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/390 "2025-04-03T05:44:47Z")
Unless we blow _way_ past even the worst estimates, there will still be a wide band of arable land. It’ll probably move farther north. It’s not going to be as immediately productive as existing land, but again, we produce way more food than needed due to high meat consumption. A lot of other things are going to end before food production is a serious issue. Like, say, international travel. But these are luxuries. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/391 "2025-04-03T06:16:01Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Unless we blow _way_ past even the worst estimates, there will still be a wide band of arable land. It’ll probably move farther north. It’s not about arable land; it’s about the stability and predictability of the weather. According to some theories agriculture is only possible in a narrow range of climate that we are now leaving. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/392 "2025-04-03T08:47:23Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Regarding housing specifically, here’s a wildly unpopular suggestion: eliminate any property tax discounts for seniors. Prop 13 in CA and anything that allows older people to pay less property tax. I didn’t know these existed. But it’s the kind of thing I was referring to when I talked about older people having outsized political power due to demographics. This policy benefits older people and harms younger ones, same as blocking building more housing does, and many things in society have become tilted this way for the same reason. It’s much worse here in the UK. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why? It’s not _moral_ to condemn children to a future of suffering out of some irrational desire to deny reality and “avoid doomerism”. They _are_ “doomed”. Yes, this is exactly the attitude I was talking about. I’ve seen plenty of people online saying it would be pointless or even unethical to have kids, because the world is going to hell in a handbasket, or because humans are a plague on the planet or whatever. Can’t imagine it’s their main reason, but it helps reinforce the decision. We need to teach kids that we can fix problems and overcome obstacles if we work together. Doomerism is a self-fulfilling prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/393 "2025-04-03T08:50:47Z")
Given the wide range of climates in which agriculture is already possible, I find that doubtful. There will be changes and they’ll be disruptive. But a total collapse of all agriculture? Not gonna happen. And that’s ignoring the possibility of high-productivity indoor farming, which eliminates the weather (and water) problem completely. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/394 "2025-04-03T08:52:36Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The idea that we’d regress to anywhere close to that is absurd. You’re aware the faction currently in control of the USA includes people who have exactly that agenda, right (taking the vote away from at least some women)? Low probability, sure. Absurd? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/395 "2025-04-03T09:02:01Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I didn’t know these existed. But it’s the kind of thing I was referring to when I talked about older people having outsized political power due to demographics. They come in various forms–Prop 13 limits the rate at which property tax can increase, so there’s a huge benefit to staying in one place for a long time. Also has negative effects on housing mobility in general. Some states have explicit exemptions for people over 65. But yes, that outsized influence–both due to demographics and generally greater political power (due to wealth, personal connections, and so on)–make these things difficult to fix. It might be easier to just build new housing. At least the US still has large swathes of open land where this is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/396 "2025-04-03T09:08:14Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > And that’s ignoring the possibility of high-productivity indoor farming, which eliminates the weather (and water) problem completely. Indoor farming has high energy costs, though, and the needed labor force is quite different than that of traditional agriculture. It may have a role, but it’s not THE answer. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/397 "2025-04-03T09:09:40Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Women had just gotten the right to _vote_ a century ago. The idea that we’d regress to anywhere close to that is absurd. Bwuh? We live in a world where there are places women are literally not allowed to show their face in public. Absolutely it is possible for women in the US to lose the vote or otherwise regress to where they were a century or two ago, or worse. What’s absurd is you thinking it is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/398 "2025-04-03T09:14:09Z")
It’s basically impossible unless our entire system of government falls apart. Women’s suffrage is a constitutional amendment. Repealing would require passing three impossible bars (2/3 of each house and 3/4 of the states). Just not going to happen. > [@Broomstick](#): > > We live in a world where there are places women are literally not allowed to show their face in public. Yeah, _actual_ theocracies that never had any sort of constitutional protection for these things. Sure, any crazy thing can happen, in principle. But if the changes are that dramatic (total abandonment of the Constitution, etc.), then we’ll be worried about far worse things than the women’s right to vote. Or anyone’s right to vote, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/399 "2025-04-03T09:20:03Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Women’s suffrage is a constitutional amendment. Repealing would require passing three impossible bars (2/3 of each house and 3/4 of the states). Just not going to happen. You understand that there are ways to make some women voting _functionally_ impossible without a repeal, yes? Similar to the current way Black voting can be functionally difficult in some places. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655/400 "2025-04-03T09:29:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Yeah, _actual_ theocracies that never had any sort of constitutional protection for these things. Would you like to compare photos of women in Iran today vs the 60s? That kind of regression very much can happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-practical-way-to-increase-the-birthrate/1012655.md?page=21)