# Is there any real risk of a right wing coup de etat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408 "2010-03-22T23:15:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/81 "2010-03-23T18:17:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Could you be so kind as to point to where anyone in this thead laid the blame for leftie violence soley (or even primarily) at the feet of leftie politicians and media support rather than upon rabid lefties in general? > > Thank you ever so much. Well, it has been pointed out that there are nonsense spouting right-wing crazies that are officials with an 18 million-strong Baptist Church organization. And that Fox news sponsored and assisted the “tea party” rallies. And that mainstream Republican officials have gone on record talking shite about “death panels” and “doubt about Obama’s birthplace”, and have supported rallys with questionable signs that imply violence against the state… And on the other hand, **Chessic Sense** contrasts these examples with groups like ELF or protesters at the G8 or WTO… NONE OF WHICH are supported in ANY WAY by the mainstream left. **That’s the point** , which has been made repeatedly. The right wing crazies ARE a part of the mainstream republicans, with access to media, politicians, and religious leaders. The left wing crazies are marginalized groups, who are regularly ignored or at best criticized by the mainstream left politicians and leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/82 "2010-03-23T18:22:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does “righty violence” inlcude haring off on a futile and pointless war that costs a hundred thousand innocent lives, or is that categorized under “Oopsy!”? Sure. Call it “righty violence” if that’s what makes you happy. But let’s not get [holier than thou](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/83 "2010-03-23T18:25:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, it has been pointed out that there are nonsense spouting right-wing crazies that are officials with an 18 million-strong Baptist Church organization. And that Fox news sponsored and assisted the “tea party” rallies. And that mainstream Republican officials have gone on record talking shite about “death panels” and “doubt about Obama’s birthplace”, and have supported rallys with questionable signs that imply violence against the state… > > And on the other hand, **Chessic Sense** contrasts these examples with groups like ELF or protesters at the G8 or WTO… NONE OF WHICH are supported in ANY WAY by the mainstream left. > > **That’s the point** , which has been made repeatedly. The right wing crazies ARE a part of the mainstream republicans, with access to media, politicians, and religious leaders. The left wing crazies are marginalized groups, who are regularly ignored or at best criticized by the mainstream left politicians and leaders. I see. So now we’re conflating violence with what you choose to see as crazy. Or are we defining very understandable concerns about death panels under single-payer (whose proper place has even been defended by posters on this very board) as “violence”? This is getting to be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/84 "2010-03-23T18:52:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Or are we defining very understandable concerns about death panels under single-payer (whose proper place has even been defended by posters on this very board) as “violence”? This is getting to be confusing. You’re right, I’m confused too: the health care bill doesn’t provide single payer or death panels. So what exactly are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/85 "2010-03-23T19:12:02Z")
Since the health care bill was backed by Mr. Obama and pushed through Congress by Pelosi and Reid, it is, by definition, _evil and violent_. Didn’t you get the memo? Beck apparently did. > [@](#): > > Beck said, “They say this bill is historic and that Sunday was a historic day. I think they’re exactly right. But you know what other days were historic? Pearl Harbor; Neville Chamberlain meeting with Hitler; Jimmy Carter’s presidency, and, of course, the Hindenburg in flames.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/86 "2010-03-23T19:14:03Z")
I wouldn’t at all be surprised if we saw a few isolated instances of violence related to this bill. There are nut-jobs aplenty. But a coup? Not a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/87 "2010-03-23T19:18:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Or are we defining very understandable concerns about death panels under single-payer **Very understandable concerns** about death panels? There is nobody who is not a certified loon who has any concern about Palin’s "death panels. Do you have very understandable concerns about badgers from the moon who are coming to eat your liver? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/88 "2010-03-23T19:25:59Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **That’s the point** , which has been made repeatedly. The right wing crazies ARE a part of the mainstream republicans, with access to media, politicians, and religious leaders. That’s not a point, it’s a steaming pile of particularly pungent bullshit. Mainstream Republicans are not bombing abortion clinics, shooting doctors, blowing up federal buildings, or playing militia in the woods. People that do that are on the lunatic fringe. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/89 "2010-03-23T19:28:26Z")
But Mainscream Republicans are hoping to tap into that energy source and mold it to their advantage. Which they cannot do if they publicly renounce, denounce, and condemn. Leastwise, not as easily. The got the same problem they’ve had for years, how to exploit ignorant people without them catching on. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/90 "2010-03-23T19:30:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Very understandable concerns** about death panels? > > There is nobody who is not a certified loon who has any concern about Palin’s "death panels. I see what you did there. “Palin’s” death panels aren’t the subject. What are in effect “death panels” is the inevitable result of single-payer health care. It’s unavoidable. Many posters to the very board have acknowledged this. Where have you been? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/91 "2010-03-23T19:34:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What are in effect “death panels” is the inevitable result of single-payer health care. It’s unavoidable. Even if that were true, _the bill that just passed does not create a single payer health care system._ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/92 "2010-03-23T19:45:18Z")
C’mon **Marley** , you know better than this. The current bill is just a foot in the door. Pelosi has said so herself. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/93 "2010-03-23T19:52:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > C’mon **Marley** , you know better than this. The current bill is just a foot in the door. Pelosi has said so herself. Yes, and when it’s obvious to anyone that if you have some sort of universal health care (payed for by the people) you also need some checks and balances to prevent millions of dollars per patient going to people only to keep them alive for a few days - unless they’re willing to pay for it themselves - of course it’s not inflammatory or suggestive _at all_ to call groups of trained physicians who make those kinds of decisions “death panels”. Much better if you have a single clerk at an insurance corp making those decisions out of the public view. But hey, for all I care, you Americans can go back to the old testament rules. I’m not there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/94 "2010-03-23T19:54:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I see what you did there. > > “Palin’s” death panels aren’t the subject. What are in effect “death panels” is the inevitable result of single-payer health care. It’s unavoidable. Many posters to the very board have acknowledged this. Where have you been? I’ve been looking at the many, many examples of bean counters from private insurance companies in the USA refusing to pay for needed treatment. I’ve been looking at the increased use of Rescission in the USA to cancel policies. I’ve been trying to understand why a pre-existing back problem means that a private insurer can refuse to cover a thyroid treatment. I’ve been looking at the complete lack of anything remotely resembling a “death panel” in any country with UHC. A waiting list for a knee replacement is not a “death panel” No insurance coverage in the USA can, however, be a death sentence. From this I have not gotten that death panels are “unavoidable” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/95 "2010-03-23T20:02:02Z")
Why do you support death panels, **Starving Artist**? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/96 "2010-03-23T20:03:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’ve been looking at the many, many examples of bean counters from private insurance companies in the USA refusing to pay for needed treatment. Have you also been counting whether those people were forced to pay into those companies whether they wanted to or not? And have you counted where the denials were legitimate and not covered by the policy in the first place, or are doing like many posters here do and simply assuming that every policy should cover every ailment no matter what the patient is paying for? Sure, there are times when insurance companies don’t play fair, but there are also a lot of times when people are just being unrealistic in expecting more than they are paying for. Does your grocer give you more food than you paid for simply because you need it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/97 "2010-03-23T20:05:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why do you support death panels, **Starving Artist**? In the case of insurance companies it’s because you have options and contracts, and you can choose not to participate. With government run single-payer you have none of these. Why is this so hard to grasp? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/98 "2010-03-23T20:13:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > C’mon **Marley** , you know better than this. The current bill is just a foot in the door. Pelosi has said so herself. Very few Democrats have any faith in the ability of their party (or Pelosi) to get anything done, but you do? 😉 What a twist. Anyway: the words “death panels” came from Palin. She was not talking about any kind of ultimate UHC system, she was talking about a bill similar to the current one. And there was no honest way to represent the type of counseling she was discussing as a death panel. Even from her, it was a shockingly bold lie. (Not only that, she had the nerve to bring her child into it.) If you’re going to defend that as a sensible concern, you’re welcome to it. But it would invovle a huge shifting of the goal posts, because you and she are talking about different things entirely. Concerns about how those decisions would be made under a UHC system could be legit. What she was talking about was not legitimate concerns. They were absurd lies designed to provoke the ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/99 "2010-03-23T20:21:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Very few Democrats have any faith in the ability of their party (or Pelosi) to get anything done Well, that was true a couple of weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408/100 "2010-03-23T20:21:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In the case of insurance companies it’s because you have options and contracts, and you can choose not to participate. With government run single-payer you have none of these. Why is this so hard to grasp? Either you participate and support the private company multimillionaire run death panels you have no influence over at all, or you don’t participate and die from lack of health care. Why do you support privately run death panels over which you have no influence whatsoever, **Starving Artist**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-real-risk-of-a-right-wing-coup-de-etat/533408.md?page=6)