Is there any realistic way to fight global warming?

They might be, but the point of talking about Algore is that they probably won’t. Because even Mr. Global Warming himself won’t give up his carbon footprint that is eleven times larger than average even for the US.

If the most ardent advocates won’t change unless and until they are forced to do so, why would they expect anyone else to change? If it is not a good idea for him until someone passes a law forcing it on him, then it is not a good idea for me until someone passes a law forcing it on me, and we cannot pass a law forcing it on the Chinese.

Advocating a switch to energy sources that are uneconomical without tax subsidies is asking us to give something up.

Regards,
Shodan

And it also shows that you also did not paid attention, The point of Al Gore is to be carbon neutral, the change he advocates includes put his money in industries that allow him to keep the balance of the CO2 in the atmosphere. That was is, and even then it is clear that while it was not his point he is on top of that making changes like going vegan and reducing the carbon footprint in his home, of curse as I usually point out it seems that the blind spot seen on many conservatives is there, timelines and the march of science and technology is ignored to make the real alarmist points.

Then you ignore also what is going on with the progress done with solar and wind, that are now not only making sense ecologically but also making sense economically.

So…given the typical level of concern over AGW (which I think is quite high), would you mind giving me a rough idea of what the typical “give” has been in lifestyle or comfort level that has resulted in “mitigation”?

I just see total population continuing to rise, almost every member of that population putting their personal comfort above a putative future good, and total energy “needs” consuming all sources of energy brought online. That is, as we get better new renewables, they will add to the pool of energy but they will not displace AGW-contributing energy sources.

And I do not see mankind avoiding the tragedy of the commons.

But if you do, I’m just curious if you’d mind mentioning some areas where sacrifice pending better anti-AGW alternatives has been a success in mitigating. And if not now, when?

I totally understand I am a sinner, AGW wise. And I swear to try to do good. But in the end I am pretty sure I will sink back into sinning instead of mitigating.

And I bet you did not give up driving until lead-free gas came out. At least, most of us didn’t.

We’ve solved a lot of pollution problems. But none that I know of that required us to substantially sacrifice while we were solving the problem.

The problem wrt AGW is that we do not have enough total energy to make everyone live rich, and everyone wants to live rich. So we can’t solve the problem by making greener energy if the greener energy doesn’t displace dirty energy.

I have not seen any numbers showing greener energy replaces the total amount of dirty energy. Have you? (See the graph I posted earlier to see what I mean)

The numbers were in the Reuters article and the other I linked about Germany, it shows what it would happen if we all would follow the example. You are looking at a graph that only goes to 2010, the example Germany is giving and the results are just taking place recently. It is painfully clear that you are repeating once again debunked points that are now even more so thanks to the march of time. And you **still **expect the **same ** old straw to lift you up.

And the huge rise seen in solar deployment seen in the south west of the USA is not there, once again the march of time is ignored to make sorry points.

And your straw man was even mentioned in the post I made, and I was correct as your straw man appears once again in your post here, you are indeed claiming that the me and the experts are recommending that countries give up progress, or demand it from developing nations, it remains a straw man, the experts are not saying that. And last time I checked Germany and other countries that are doing a concerted effort are not going back to the stone age.

You are indeed telling all that you are paying attention when in reality you don’t.

The solution is to price carbon. It really is that simple.

However, implementation is a nightmare. Pricing carbon in most jurisdictions is probably feasible, but those that choose to not join such a group would have a potentially considerable economic advantage over other countries.

To make a quick, real dent in climate change, carbon would need to have a high price implemented quickly. This would severely disadvantage developing countries like China and India, which have high energy needs, but not sufficient capital to invest in higher cost, low carbon energy solutions.

Europe, Canada, the US and a small number of other countries could probably get their carbon use to reasonable level and still survive economically, but the rest of the world would be screwed. We would live in a world where climate change was potentially under control, but where the vast majority of the human population would be living under terrible economic conditions.

Also, to address Bjorn Lomborg, he has been highly successful and influential. While many do not agree with his writing, he has hardly suffered greatly.

Like** Dave Hartwic** did notice, your points are made of straw.

In this case though the fallacy is coming from a repeated (as Richard Alley was pointed out before in a previous discussion) argument from ignorance. And with a dash of appeal to extremes.

The sacrifice you mention here does imply stopping progress and imposing intolerable sacrifices, it does not.

As Alley and many other experts mentioned, the percentage of the costs for the world economy doing a concerted effort to deal with the issue are in the single digits, the cost of continuing as usual continues to be the big elephant that is ignored by the contrarians.

I would not quite agree on his writing,

And that he has not suffered.

That would make me wonder where is getting his funding now, in any case many experts made the point in the past that the falling prices in solar will eventually make their massive deployment to make economical sense, even with the efforts made to ignore the real cost of using coal and other fossil fuels.

You still need to define what you mean by “global warming”, and especially what the consequences of the undefined “global warming” are assumed to be, and when.

And that’s just what I stated.

Show me a political entity that is guaranteed to last 10,000 years.

But it’s also technical. Show me a container guaranteed to last 10,000 years.

You can’t do either, so nuclear is an absurd answer. Period.

Once again, this only implies that we should not do anything when some issues are still uncertain. However, uncertainty is not your friend. Nor is the fact that almost all experts on the matter conclude that we should control emissions and you continue to claim those experts should interpret the data as you do.

http://planet3.org/2012/03/13/uncertainty-is-not-your-friend/

Underground locations have been found that have been stable for millions of years, of course NIMBY can make this a problem by preventing the development of those disposal locations. We should not forget that Fukishima was not contained as it should in large part because of all the spent fuel stored on the nuclear plant contaminated the control areas. Currently we have many situations like that in the USA because of the current political nonsense that does not allow the proper disposal of the spent fuel.

Complete nonsense. None of of the stored fuel rods contributed to any of the radiation that contaminated anything at Fukushima. It was all from the three ruined reactors that vented or breached containment.

No, it directly states that before you can discuss, or solve a problem, you need to know what the problem actually is.

More ignorance that the problem was identified and that experts do report what it should be done.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm

The story is long and the cited science is there.

Not true, unfortunately.

Cite.

Regards,
Shodan

FPL built a solar assist array (first in the nation they say) to boost output from a natural gas fired boiler. In essence it adds the sun’s heat during the day to the gas fired boiler, meaning they use less gas when the sun shines, which happens to be when they need the most power.

Here it is on Google Earth, and here are the gas fired boilers it assists. Uses an oil to conduct the heat. Brilliant idea, simple concept. Just use the heat of the sun (of which there is a LOT of in Florida) to reduce fuel use.

They had an oil leak (huge expense), but still, at least somebody is trying to use the sun. FPL also wants to put in wind mills next to their nuclear plants, but of course the home owners and other groups are fighting it tooth and nail.

I mean, it’s OK to live across the river from two nuclear reactors, but windmills? Perish the thought. Plus, the birds. And bats. Man it is HARD to to use the sun and wind in Florida.

My biggest problem with wind and solar is that people think it can actually fulfill our needs and let’s us ignore that scaaaary nuclear power.

Not what I read, at the start of the crisis a lot of the contaminated water came thanks to the efforts to control the spent fuel that was up high in the reactor building. The frames of the store thanks were damaged in the gas explosion, along the building infrastructure on which they were constructed. With no way to detect right away if the spent fuel was under control, water was applied to the tanks.

The point was that if the spent fuel had not been stored up high and in the building there would had been less contamination and more prompt control of the incident.

Once again, from a few years ago and remember the IF in their report, it seems to the the if is being taken care of in Germany and other places.

While that is also not true, I agree that spent fuel rods should NOT be stored on top of the reactors. The problem is, as anyone following the crisis knows, you can’t move fresh spent fuel rods. Even after they have cooled for years, they are very hard to move.

They have to be kept under a lot of water. Until they have “cooled” off for a long time. The longer the better.