# Is there any remotely sane, scientific reason that "hypnosis" could cause deaths? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436 "2015-10-12T16:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/1 "2015-10-12T16:53:58Z")
The story currently doing the round of students [who died after being hypnotised by a school principle](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/12/north-port-florida-students-death-hypnosis) seems like complete BS, to me (on a par with the [Italian scientists who were prosecuted for failing to predict earthquakes](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/22/14611225-scientists-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-for-failing-to-predict-italy-quake?lite).) But it is being covered in lots of respectable media outlets as if there could be a real causal relationship between the deaths and the hypnotism. Have any non-crazy scientific experts who don’t believe in crystal healing and spoon bending, actually proposed any reason this is not a classic case of correlation not causation? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/2 "2015-10-12T17:34:12Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > The story currently doing the round of students [who died after being hypnotised by a school principle](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/12/north-port-florida-students-death-hypnosis) seems like complete BS, to me (on a par with the [Italian scientists who were prosecuted for failing to predict earthquakes](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/22/14611225-scientists-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-for-failing-to-predict-italy-quake?lite).) But it is being covered in lots of respectable media outlets as if there could be a real causal relationship between the deaths and the hypnotism. > > Have any non-crazy scientific experts who don’t believe in crystal healing and spoon bending, actually proposed any reason this is not a classic case of correlation not causation? It would seem to be pretty bogus. AFAIK, you can’t be "hypnotized’ into doing anything you dont want to do, other than perhaps a little nap. > **[Amazing Kreskin says ‘hypnosis is BS,’ bashes Florida principal trance scandal](https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/10/09/amazing-kreskin-says-hypnosis-is-bs-bashes-florida-principal-trance-scandal/)** > > The Amazing Kreskin wants you to snap out of it. The famed mentalist on Friday bashed believers of hypnosis, saying a Florida school district got fleeced into paying the families of three students … \*The Amazing Kreskin wants you to snap out of it. The famed mentalist on Friday bashed believers of hypnosis, saying a Florida school district got fleeced into paying the families of three students who died after allegedly being put in a trance by their principal. “Talk about a disgraceful abuse of scientific mumbo jumbo,” Kreskin wrote in a rant about the recent $600,000 settlement the Sarasota County School District reached with grieving families this week. “There is the immense power of suggestion but hypnosis is B.S.”…The legendary soothsayer, who has about 60 years of experience under his belt, reiterated his longstanding $100,000 offer to anyone who can scientifically prove that hypnotic trances exist. Kreskin was sued in New Jersey court in 1986 by a hypnotist who unsuccessfully sought to demonstrate hypnosis. “My $100,000 offer which has never been taken on since that 1986 trial, has never been taken on by either a stage hypnotist, a psychiatrist, a scientist, or ruthless lawyer, says something about my position,” he said. \* ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/3 "2015-10-12T17:45:41Z")
I know a person, who started to hyperventilate when an amatour was hypnotizing her. In theory it could have caused death I guess. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/4 "2015-10-12T17:49:13Z")
No doubt the school authorities or their insurers decided that paying out, no doubt on the basis of \*sine praeiudicio \* was the cheapest option compared with the costs of the lawyers, the bad publicity and the unlikelihood of recovering costs from the families ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/5 "2015-10-12T18:17:22Z")
From my quick reading, it doesn’t look like there needs to be a direct hypnotized-dead connection for the case to work. I don’t think that you could hypnotize someone to kill themselves, but I do think that an authority figure giving inappropriate directions to teenagers could cause serious problems, either directly pushing them to suicide or convincing them that they’re cured and don’t need therapy that they actually do need. It was illegal for him to hypnotize the kids (practicing without a license) and the school board had apparently told him not to do it, but never followed through even though they knew that he did. I’d be willing to bet that, if you read through it, lawsuit ends up saying something that summarizes more as ‘the principal did some illegal stuff instead of following correct procedure, the school board knew he was doing illegal stuff instead of sending kids to a licensed professional, but didn’t stop him, therefore the district is liable for damages’ than ‘the principle hypnotized them into killing themselves’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/6 "2015-10-12T19:34:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It would seem to be pretty bogus. AFAIK, you can’t be "hypnotized’ into doing anything you dont want to do, other than perhaps a little nap. OK, but it’s possible to \*want to die \* - what then? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/7 "2015-10-12T19:45:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > OK, but it’s possible to \*want to die \* - what then? Sure. But it’s unlikely the hypnotism does anything anyway. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/8 "2015-10-12T20:01:50Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > No doubt the school authorities or their insurers decided that paying out, no doubt on the basis of \*sine praeiudicio \* was the cheapest option compared with the costs of the lawyers, the bad publicity and the unlikelihood of recovering costs from the families Undoubtedly but it is still terrible journalism that covers it without questioning the basic logic that hypnotism could cause those deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Disgscen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@Disgscen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgscen)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/9 "2015-10-12T20:05:46Z")
If a person had some sort of hypoventilation syndrome, any sort of deep relaxation could be dangerous. That’s not what happened here–I’m just responding to the original question. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/10 "2015-10-12T20:11:34Z")
If a person who was greatly troubled thought they were undergoing therapy, but it turned out that some unlicensed quack was performing useless hypnotic treatments, that disturbed person’s condition might worsen and they might harm themselves. The hypnosis doesn’t directly cause deaths, but if used instead of actual treatment could facilitate them. Just like if your principal treated your bacterial infection with ginger root instead of antibiotics. Ginger root doesn’t cause death, but you might die anyway. There was a pit thread on this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/11 "2015-10-12T20:21:21Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > If a person who was greatly troubled thought they were undergoing therapy, but it turned out that some unlicensed quack was performing useless hypnotic treatments, that disturbed person’s condition might worsen and they might harm themselves. The hypnosis doesn’t directly cause deaths, but if used instead of actual treatment could facilitate them. Just like if your principal treated your bacterial infection with ginger root instead of antibiotics. Ginger root doesn’t cause death, but you might die anyway. > > There was a pit thread on this. Well, yes, but but if turned out that some\* licensed\* quack was performing useless hypnotic treatments, they’d still be just as useless. If your Chiropractor give you some homeopathic pills, they wont work either. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/12 "2015-10-12T21:13:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > OK, but it’s possible to \*want to die \* - what then? You go to the bloody pub, like everyone else ! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/13 "2015-10-12T21:30:55Z")
Obviously, a highly suggestible person can be led to drink a glass of Kool-aid, which would be fatal if, unknown to the subject, it had been laced with arsenic. That would be an extreme example, but it doesn’t take much imagination to think of all kinds of scenarios in which a person unwilling to voluntarily cause certain consequences, can be influenced to do things for which he is unaware that those consequences may be latent… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/14 "2015-10-12T21:50:52Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Obviously, a highly suggestible person can be led to drink a glass of Kool-aid, which would be fatal if, unknown to the subject, it had been laced with arsenic. That would be an extreme example, but it doesn’t take much imagination to think of all kinds of scenarios in which a person unwilling to voluntarily cause certain consequences, can be influenced to do things for which he is unaware that those consequences may be latent… Yes, and the _exact same thing_ could happen if he _wasn’t_ being hypnotized. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/15 "2015-10-12T22:34:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It would seem to be pretty bogus. AFAIK, you can’t be "hypnotized’ into doing anything you dont want to do, other than perhaps a little nap. > > [Amazing Kreskin says ‘hypnosis is BS,’ bashes Florida principal trance scandal – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amazing-kreskin-fla-trance-scandal-hypnosis-bs-article-1.2391780) > > \*The Amazing Kreskin wants you to snap out of it. > > The famed mentalist on Friday bashed believers of hypnosis, saying a Florida school district got fleeced into paying the families of three students who died after allegedly being put in a trance by their principal. > > “Talk about a disgraceful abuse of scientific mumbo jumbo,” Kreskin wrote in a rant about the recent $600,000 settlement the Sarasota County School District reached with grieving families this week. “There is the immense power of suggestion but hypnosis is B.S.”…The legendary soothsayer, who has about 60 years of experience under his belt, reiterated his longstanding $100,000 offer to anyone who can scientifically prove that hypnotic trances exist. > > Kreskin was sued in New Jersey court in 1986 by a hypnotist who unsuccessfully sought to demonstrate hypnosis. > > “My $100,000 offer which has never been taken on since that 1986 trial, has never been taken on by either a stage hypnotist, a psychiatrist, a scientist, or ruthless lawyer, says something about my position,” he said. > \* The most depressing thing about this is the NY Daily News, gave a more questioning in-depth analysis of the case than the Guardian did. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/16 "2015-10-12T23:05:18Z")
As I posted in another thread, he hypnotized one kid that committed suicide later the same day. The kid’s friend said in a disposition that the dead kid was always distant after being hypnotized, sometimes couldn’t remember his name and had once asked him to punch him in the face. Settling the case isn’t proof that hypnotism was to blame. Hypnotism might be bunk, but good luck proving it against that kids testimony and the fact that the principal was told to stop hypnotizing kids but didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/17 "2015-10-13T04:46:04Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > As I posted in another thread, he hypnotized one kid that committed suicide later the same day. The kid’s friend said in a disposition that the dead kid was always distant after being hypnotized, sometimes couldn’t remember his name and had once asked him to punch him in the face. This, maybe. It’s been several days now since this hit the news, so I don’t have the link handy – but I remember seeing something like this in some article somewhere. One if the dead kid’s friend stated that he had seen some bizarre behavior during that period of time, which he had not seen before, thus implying that the alleged “hypno-therapy” had done some kind of damage. That kind of testimony could give the lawsuit legs. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/18 "2015-10-13T08:09:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > This, maybe. It’s been several days now since this hit the news, so I don’t have the link handy – but I remember seeing something like this in some article somewhere. One if the dead kid’s friend stated that he had seen some bizarre behavior during that period of time, which he had not seen before, thus implying that the alleged “hypno-therapy” had done some kind of damage. That kind of testimony could give the lawsuit legs. All sorts of riduclous things have been settled in civil court cases. But has any legitimate scientific authority in the area ever suggested there is a causal relationship between the bizarre behaviours, the deaths and the hypnotism? And what mechanism do they propose for it? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/19 "2015-10-13T14:01:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, and the _exact same thing_ could happen if he _wasn’t_ being hypnotized. You’re right, which is why I carefully avoided using the word “hypnosis” in my post. Suggestibility is what it is, regardless of whether it crosses a line into the conventional realm called hypnosis. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-remotely-sane-scientific-reason-that-hypnosis-could-cause-deaths/734436/20 "2015-10-13T15:35:13Z")
Anti-depressant drugs can have the side effect of increasing the suicide rate of those using them. One explanation is that depression can be so debilitating that suicidal patients can’t be assed to off themselves without a bit of relief from the meds. IF (big if) like the meds, hypnosis were to somehow relieve the lack of motivation from a suicidal depressed person, yet not actually cure the depression… Other than that, I got nothing.