# Is there any scientific support for the idea that you can program the mind while sleeping? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 7, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836 "2024-07-07T14:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/1 "2024-07-07T14:56:55Z")
From what I can glean online, listening to positive affirmations while sleeping may have an influence on the subconscious mind, theoretically helping a person become more disciplined, self assured, or optimistic. But that’s online. > **[The Real Science Behind Sleep Affirmation – AClasses Media](https://aclasses.org/the-real-science-behind-sleep-affirmation/)** Is there any scientific validity to the idea that a person might benefit from listening to positive thoughts while they sleep? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/2 "2024-07-07T15:54:47Z")
[The Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/stress-management/in-depth/positive-thinking/art-20043950#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20some%20studies%20show%20that,associated%20with%20many%20health%20benefits.) says there are benefits to positive thinking. _Program the mind while sleeping_ doesn’t mean anything in particular except to people trying to sell you something. [There is some science behind sleep learning](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31954628/) but it isn’t the simple process some people would like to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/3 "2024-07-07T16:01:35Z")
There have been instances of people having powerful epiphanies or life-changing realizations in a sleep dream, but not in a controllable way, as if they chose to have such an epiphany. It just hit them randomly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/4 "2024-07-07T16:07:05Z")
So you can’t learn to speak Spanish by listening to lessons while you sleep? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/5 "2024-07-07T16:12:23Z")
I’m not looking to learn facts. I’m talking about positive affirmations, given while sleeping, changing your motivation or perspective when awake. That’s what I’m curious about. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/6 "2024-07-07T16:13:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you can’t learn to speak Spanish by listening to lessons while you sleep? - 🎶 "You’ve been _habla Español_ in your sleep…🎶 ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/7 "2024-07-07T16:17:44Z")
I am convinced that I learned how to dance by dreaming about dancing, I have had similar experiences with boxing, Multiple times I have awaken to having solutions to problems I couldn’t solve. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/8 "2024-07-07T16:31:26Z")
Can you absorba the Greek? I recently watched the Adam Curtis documentary _You Have Used Me for a Fish Long Enough_, which went into mind control as it was practiced during the Cold War. It seems that science can wipe a mind effectively, but not refill it to any specification. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/9 "2024-07-07T16:31:28Z")
_Hypnopedia_ (colloqually, “sleep learning”) is not only pseudoscience but it likely interferes with normal sleep patterns which facilitate the integration of memories and generally results in symptoms of sleep deprivation. There is no real evidence of any effectiveness despite having been studied extensively on human subjects since the 1950s. External “positive affirmation” (as opposed to therapeutic self-affirmation which builds up individual confidence, resilience, and self-esteem) lacks any real objective evidence of efficacy although there are many advocates who claim anecdotal success. To the extent that it may work (or at least cause the subject to claim that it is working) it is likely a consequence of a kind of placebo effect rather than any kind of innate benefit from having a disembodied voice tell you how smart and wonderful you are. Listening to “positive affirmations” while sleeping just seems likely to result in sleep disruption and deprivation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/10 "2024-07-07T20:09:19Z")
I think a lot of people mistake a trance state with sleeping. And because people are susceptible to suggestion while in a trance, they also think the same can be done when they are asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/11 "2024-07-07T20:11:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you can’t learn to speak Spanish by listening to lessons while you sleep? - I can tell you that putting my textbook under my pillow didn’t move the needle at all. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/12 "2024-07-07T20:24:30Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I think a lot of people mistake a trance state with sleeping. And because people are susceptible to suggestion while in a trance, they also think the same can be done when they are asleep. That’s a good point. And I suspect that, if falling asleep to, say, recordings of positive affirmations has any affect on your mind, that effect occurs not when you’re fully asleep but when you’re in a trancelike state before becoming completely unconscious. (But, this being FQ, I hasten to point out that this is purely speculation.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/13 "2024-07-07T20:25:05Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > So you can’t learn to speak Spanish by listening to lessons while you sleep? - > > I can tell you that putting my textbook under my pillow didn’t move the needle at all. - > **[Dan's Operation (Part 2)](https://nightcourt.fandom.com/wiki/Dan%27s_Operation_(Part_2))** > >    Dan's Operation (Part 2) was the 6th episode of Season 4 of Night Court, also the 63rd overall series episode. Written by Bob Stevens, and directed by Jeff Melman, the episode, which aired on NBC-TV, first aired on November 13,... > When Dan awakens from his coma, and Harry confronts him about his selfish and self-destructive behavior, as he gets defensive, speaking in Spanish, form Bull teaching him the language sublimnally through an audio cassatte in Part 2 of “Dan’s Operation” in Season 4 (ep.#6). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/14 "2024-07-07T23:11:00Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > if falling asleep to, say, recordings of positive affirmations has any affect on your mind, that effect occurs not when you’re fully asleep but when you’re in a trancelike state before becoming completely unconscious. (But, this being FQ, I hasten to point out that this is purely speculation.) Hypnagogic is the SAT word for that period where you’re between wakefulness and sleep. Supposedly you are more susceptible to influence during that time, so maybe it’d be easier to “convince” yourself of positive thinking. It seems to be an area of limited study, but I did see that it produces similar brain activity as REM sleep. > [@](#): > > On an electroencephalogram, electrical activity during a hypnagogic state looks most similar to electrical activity during the fourth stage of sleep — known by its acronym, REM, due to its signature rapid eye movements. The electrophysiological and phenomenological resemblances between hypnagogia and REM sleep are unexpected. When a person is awakened during stage 1 sleep, a period during which most hypnagogic hallucinations occur, they typically don’t even realize they’ve been asleep. By contrast, REM sleep is the deepest stage of sleep and is fertile ground for intense, more narrative-driven dreams. > > There’s yet another similarity between hypnagogia and REM sleep. “Hypnagogia involves a lot of activity in the secondary visual cortex,” explains [Dierdre Barrett](https://connects.catalyst.harvard.edu/Profiles/display/Person/39720), an HMS lecturer on psychology, part-time, in the Department of Psychiatry at Cambridge Health Alliance, who also teaches courses on dreaming at HMS and in Harvard’s Freshman Seminar Program. Although the primary visual cortex handles basic image processing when we’re awake, the secondary visual cortex interprets and makes meaning of that data during all stages of sleep — and is especially active during hypnagogia and REM sleep. I don’t know what that means in terms of conscious thinking, but it seems that research is trying to use it to address mental trauma. > [@](#): > > Cognitive constraints are loosened in hypnagogia, but not quite as much as in REM sleep. A smidge of ordinary logic remains. “You’re a different person as you enter sleep onset — you have shifts in the way the brain associates information,” Horowitz says, “but you retain elements of your waking self. You can watch these brain changes happen, watch these hypnagogic microdreams as if from a distance, and with practice, you can change elements of their content.” > > Leveraging this characteristic, the Dormio tool plays recordings of people’s own voices to them as they fall asleep, with the aim of influencing the content of their hypnagogic hallucinations. After a handful of sleep sessions using the tool, Horowitz has found that people are often much more attuned to hypnagogic experiences and possibly able to manipulate them unaided. > > The process is called targeted dream incubation; Horowitz hopes it might one day help veterans and others suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and associated nightmare disorder. > **[Behind the Veil of Hypnagogic Sleep](https://magazine.hms.harvard.edu/articles/behind-veil-hypnagogic-sleep)** > > Research on “creativity’s sweet spot” could inform treatments for people with nightmare disorders ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/15 "2024-07-08T05:21:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you can’t learn to speak Spanish by listening to lessons while you sleep? No, but you will begin snoring with a Spanish accent. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/16 "2024-07-08T11:25:36Z")
(Now that we’re past the FQ part – the answer being: no good scientific support) I listen to podcasts to help me sleep. The only thing I’ve noticed is that I have had dreams where I’m talking to someone, and they are insufferable – they won’t stop talking about e.g. astronomy. Then on waking I find my astronomy podcast was still going. So I guess, if I’m listening to positive affirmations then I might dream of someone saying those things, which could impact a little bit my mood for the day, IMO ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/17 "2024-07-08T12:56:45Z")
So, I found a flaw in my little experiment to try listening to positive affirmations as I fell asleep… If you cue up a YouTube video with soft soothing assurances that you are strong, confident, and successful, it will be periodically interrupted with advertisements. I don’t need to be subliminally encouraged to choose the right mouthwash. It sort of ruins the flow. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/18 "2024-07-08T13:56:40Z")
I’ve not found an app on mobile that reliably blocks ads outright, but there are several that will mute the audio and hit “skip” as soon as it appears. I’m using [this one](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=skip.ads.pro&hl=en&pli=1) currently. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/19 "2024-07-08T15:45:36Z")
“Programming the mind” is definitely not a thing (other than an extremely attractive bit of wish fulfilment). Your cite, predictably, has no cites of its own to back up its claims about “real science.” I’ve done a little digging in PubMed and found no studies about the OP’s specific question. I did find research supporting two things. 1. self-affirmation interventions can be beneficial for some people 2. external stimulus while sleeping may enhance recall for previously learned facts So it’s not a fully batshit idea to posit that if you engage in a course of self-affirmation and mindfulness _while awake_, playing the same stuff while sleeping \*might \*help reinforce the concepts you’re learning. But self-affirmation interventions are a very active process, way beyond listening to YouTube videos and a lot more involved than somebody telling you that you’re great. Putting that stuff on as you’re dozing off isn’t going to do you any good beyond whatever enjoyment you get from listening to them. Probably won’t hurt, either, so long as it doesn’t keep you awake. As for YouTube, I got a subscription a while ago to see what their premium music service is like and I’m keeping it for the ad-free experience. Great value. ---
**Author:** ![icantdraw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@icantdraw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icantdraw)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836/20 "2024-07-08T19:27:40Z")
Wilma sure thought it worked. “… a new mink coat…” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-scientific-support-for-the-idea-that-you-can-program-the-mind-while-sleeping/1003836.md?page=2)