# Is there any situation in which a man hitting a woman would be "OK"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827 "2008-09-16T12:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/101 "2008-09-17T11:00:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Strongly suspect that any violence by me would be redundant at that point. > > I’d expect to hear 5 very loud sounds, followed by one or more clicks. > > Momma don’t play that, and she also lives in a “Stand Your Ground” state. So a man can’t hit a woman for pretty much any reason, but an armed woman can ventilate another woman as punishment for a spit in the face? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/102 "2008-09-17T11:53:37Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > **Cosmic Relief** : > Why not go a step further and say that a bitch-slap is never an acceptable response to provocation consisting only of words, regardless of sex? I figured it might be more interesting to set up a scenario where it might be acceptable instead of joining the echo chamber in here. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/103 "2008-09-17T12:37:32Z")
> [@Sanity\_Challenged](#): > > The reality of the world is that there exist people who need to be punched in the face. No, there really aren’t. There are people who it would feel good to punch them in the face, but it isn’t needed, and it doesn’t accomplish anything. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/104 "2008-09-17T13:24:20Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > So a man can’t hit a woman for pretty much any reason, but an armed woman can ventilate another woman as punishment for a spit in the face? > > :dubious: Given the foul pathogens that body fluids can carry, I consider spitting an attempt to harm me. Since I can’t tell by looking at you what kind of a filthy grab bag of pestilence you are/aren’t, I treat it just like somebody pointing a gun at me. Sure, maybe it isn’t loaded, but I’m not willing to take the chance. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/105 "2008-09-17T13:36:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’d expect to hear 5 very loud sounds, followed by one or more clicks. I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/106 "2008-09-17T13:50:16Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > **Clurican** : > You fail to recognize that your personal code of conduct does not apply to the rest of the world. Respect, honor, and boundaries are not universally recognized concepts and where they are recognized, they can have vastly different definitions. I’m aware that is doesn’t apply to the rest of the world. That’s why I frequent places where these are universally recognized concepts, and everyone pretty much understands what those definitions are. > [@](#): > > Your imaginary line is invisible to everyone except you. We don’t care about your feelings. The idea that certain, unspecified topics of discussion will propel you into a violent act must make your coworkers extraordinarily polite. Insults do not have the power to injure, reacting with force does. Furthermore, none of this crap has any bearing on the laws or standards of behavior that permeate the modern world. Topics of discussion are rather unlikely to provoke any kind of physical response. I’m not getting into a brannigan down at the local tavern over Cubs relief pitching. However assault is assault, be it verbal or non verbal and there’s a pattern of escalation that usually begins with spouting off at the mouth very pointedly and recognizing these patterns and how to extracate one’s self from them is important if you want to walk through the world safely. My imaginary line is indeed just that, but it’s not some arbitrary scale of figuring out when it’s ok to punch someone, it’s threat recognition. I will always seek to remove myself from a dangerous situation, but lacking that option I retain the right to defend myself. > [@](#): > > Your cult of exceptionalism, the conceit that only certain real men have the ‘stomach’ for violence is ludicrous. Nearly all people, when in fear for their lives, behave like frightened animals, with violence and flight. A dismayingly large number of people will act violently towards others, without any provocation, if they believe they can get away with it. Sure, lots of people when confronted with escalated situations may become willing to fight, but throwing your first looping haymaker since grade school is most likely going to get you hurt. Anyone without the ability and wherewithal who decides to intervene in attempting to protect someone else who you may encounter in one of these escalated situations it most likely going to find themselves in a situation with two victims instead of one. If we were both walking down the street and saw a woman being beaten by an out of control man, do you think you have the fortitue to really intervene? I don’t disagree that lots of people will behave in a nasty manner given a lack of consequences, which is why I conduct myself as a person who carries consequences. > [@](#): > > In the war of ideas, your side lost. You should hire better philosophers next time. Get used to the judicial system that us civilized folks put in place to protect ourselves and our society from you guys. If you keep poking people in jaw for saying nasty things, you’re going to see a lot of it. Be glad it’s the way it is, we used to hang incorrigibles. And we don’t need anybody to do the ‘heavy lifting’ of beating those who say things we don’t like, we just yell right back at them and nobody gets hurt. You just yell back and nobody gets hurt? So if you were out at a bar with your SO, and some big hunk of stupid comes sauntering over and begins harassing you, and I don’t mean just being stupid, I mean being menacing, saying things like “Look at this little punk motherfucker. What are you looking at, punk?” You think you can just _yell back_ at him and then everyone do-se-do’s back to minding their own business? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/107 "2008-09-17T14:16:13Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Given the foul pathogens that body fluids can carry, I consider spitting an attempt to harm me. Since I can’t tell by looking at you what kind of a filthy grab bag of pestilence you are/aren’t, I treat it just like somebody pointing a gun at me. Sure, maybe it isn’t loaded, but I’m not willing to take the chance. I find it hard to believe that you are really serious. “An attempt to harm me” isn’t the same as “assault occasioning clear and present danger of death” such that it warrants death by shooting in self-defence. Of course, you can present me with a list of people who have been killed by being spat on, and I’ll apologise quite humbly if it turns out to be a major risk, but for now I’ll content myself with another one of these: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/108 "2008-09-17T14:39:22Z")
Well I’m going to paint with some broad brushes here so nitpickers and offenderatti be forewarned. **IN GENERAL** , Men of any ethnicity will be larger, stronger, more aggressive, and better fit physically to endure a violent physical confrontation. There are exceptions and overlaps, but they are the minority, and a very small one at that. Keeping that in mind, and that violence ought to be a last resort for any rational being, I think that there are times when it would be acceptable to hit a woman. Self defense, combative sports, and the _de-escalation_ of a violent physical confrontation come to mind. I had a poor relationship once that melted down into a violent fit on her part once. I am not a large man, (5’7, 165 lbs), and she was approximately the same height and weight as myself. I had no trouble whatsoever grabbing and holding her wrists to prevent myself from being struck. While she struggled, I attempted to calm her down verbally. Eventually, it played out like this: Me: Stop. We can talk about this. Her: (incoherent screaming and and flailing) Me: Stop. Her: (continues in violent manner) Me: Dammit! Stop that, or I will stop you. Her: Continues) Me: (clamps down hard on her wrists) Stop it now. We can talk this out or you can leave. (I have extremely strong hands from years of sculpting, this action resulted in her immediate cessation of screaming and trying to strike me) Me: I care about you, and do not want to hurt you, but I will defend myself. Can we _please_ talk this out? Her: okay…okay… So while I had no need to strike her, what many would consider violent force, (her wrists were bruised for several days) DID prevent both myself from getting injured, and from the situation escalating into some sort of ridiculous sideshow. That was the only time I have EVER had to do something like that to a woman, but I would not hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat if I thought my own physical welfare or that of my family was threatened. Until we can\*\* all \*\*agree to act civilized, there will be a place for force, regardless of sex. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/109 "2008-09-17T14:42:44Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Self-defense (or defense of others who can’t defend themselves) and sports of which the hitting is an accepted part. It’s OK in Taekwondo, not OK in hockey 😛 Since Taekwondo isn’t a group sport, it isn’t really covered by the OP, but heck, if there’s a fighting group sport out there, any woman who takes part should do so understanding she can get hit and has not excuse to moan about it. > > And for the first case, a hold would be preferable to a punch. > > To me the gender(s) of the people involved is not an issue. Ex-girlfriend was a black belt in TKD. In class we were paired up to spar. At that time I was a mere green belt but have a long reach. We started jabbing at each other and then I reached out and popped her right on the nose. It must have hurt because she stumbled back. She was furious at me. It took me 30 minutes in the car on the way home to talk her down and have her explain that she should have been able to block it, and its a contact sport where these things happen. I didn’t feel the least bit bad about it. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/110 "2008-09-17T14:44:59Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I find it hard to believe that you are really serious. “An attempt to harm me” isn’t the same as “assault occasioning clear and present danger of death” such that it warrants death by shooting in self-defence. Of course, you can present me with a list of people who have been killed by being spat on, and I’ll apologise quite humbly if it turns out to be a major risk, but for now I’ll content myself with another one of these: > > :dubious: Once again, spend some time dealing with people among whom TB, Hepatitus, oral forms of various STD’s, and AIDS are relatively common and then we’ll see how sanguine you are about being spat upon. Do I draw and shoot a spitter? No; but you can be sure a spitter is going to get a good hosing with pepper spray and/or struck enough body blows to reconsider their ways. Tasers, for those who have them, are a wonderful way to handle spitters. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/111 "2008-09-17T16:12:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Once again, spend some time dealing with people among whom TB, Hepatitus, oral forms of various STD’s, and AIDS are relatively common and then we’ll see how sanguine you are about being spat upon. > Do I draw and shoot a spitter? No; but you can be sure a spitter is going to get a good hosing with pepper spray and/or struck enough body blows to reconsider their ways. Tasers, for those who have them, are a wonderful way to handle spitters. So you would behave like New York when Pumkin spit on her? [Click on the fourth link. Much NSFW language.](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=new+york+pumkin&search_type=&aq=f) Or in this case, was New York “asking for it” by the insane, belittling behaviour she demonstrated all through season 1? Tiffany “New York” Pollard is pretty much the epitome of the bullying, belittling woman everyone’s been talking about “teaching a lesson”. Now, when someone escalates the situation physically to teach her that lesson others have been advocating, all of the sudden THAT’S so bad as to warrant deadly force. You’ll forgive me if I find this “violence is acceptable” value system terribly confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/112 "2008-09-17T16:31:06Z")
> [@torie](#): > > So you would behave like New York when Pumkin spit on her? > [Click on the fourth link. Much NSFW language.](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=new+york+pumkin&search_type=&aq=f) > Or in this case, was New York “asking for it” by the insane, belittling behaviour she demonstrated all through season 1? > Tiffany “New York” Pollard is pretty much the epitome of the bullying, belittling woman everyone’s been talking about “teaching a lesson”. Now, when someone escalates the situation physically to teach her that lesson others have been advocating, all of the sudden THAT’S so bad as to warrant deadly force. > You’ll forgive me if I find this “violence is acceptable” value system terribly confusing. I have no clear idea who those people are or why you are bringing them into this discussion. As nearly as I can figure it, they are participants in some retarded “reality” show or another. This is really quite simple: If you spit at me, I am going to retaliate in such a way that you will immediately cease and desist. Why don’t you call your local PD and ask them about department policy regarding handling spitters? Call your local lock-up/residential treatment centers and ask about spitters and how they are handled when you get off the phone from the cops. Those people don’t treat spitting lightly and for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/113 "2008-09-17T17:11:17Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I have no clear idea who those people are or why you are bringing them into this discussion. As nearly as I can figure it, they are participants in some retarded “reality” show or another. > This is really quite simple: If you spit at me, I am going to retaliate in such a way that you will immediately cease and desist. > Why don’t you call your local PD and ask them about department policy regarding handling spitters? Call your local lock-up/residential treatment centers and ask about spitters and how they are handled when you get off the phone from the cops. Those people don’t treat spitting lightly and for good reason. On second thought, I have an even better idea. Walk up to the first cop you see, spit in his face and start screaming abuse at him. Get back to us about what ensues. I’ll bet it won’t be hilarity. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/114 "2008-09-17T18:30:03Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > On second thought, I have an even better idea. Walk up to the first cop you see, spit in his face and start screaming abuse at him. Get back to us about what ensues. I’ll bet it won’t be hilarity. I bet it won’t be civil discussion either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/115 "2008-09-17T18:34:09Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > So, yeah: self-defense (or stopping a crime, etc), contact sports in which it’s encouraged, and mutually consensual BDSM are the only reasons I can think of for anybody to hit another person, regardless of gender. I agree. Well, the only reasons that I find acceptable, anyway. However, other forms of physical contact can be acceptable when warranted. Grabbing a woman’s arm to remove her from the premises if she refuses to leave is perfectly fine. So is bumping into an idiot who’s blocking the sidewalk and doesn’t respond to “Excuse me” or pushing past someone who’s deliberately blocking your way. But if she’s screaming in your face and verbally attacking you? Then feel free to yell and verbally attack her, but that’s not an excuse to use physical violence. My boyfriend used to be married to one of those screaming bitches, but somehow he managed never to hit her, and trust me, his manhood is fine. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/116 "2008-09-17T18:35:08Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > On second thought, I have an even better idea. Walk up to the first cop you see, spit in his face and start screaming abuse at him. Get back to us about what ensues. I’ll bet it won’t be hilarity. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Are you saying that he’d arrest you? OK then. Are you saying that he’d throw his weight around and beat the crap out of you? Is it OK if he does? Does that mean that the rest of us are entitled to as well? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/117 "2008-09-17T18:36:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > On second thought, I have an even better idea. Walk up to the first cop you see, spit in his face and start screaming abuse at him. Get back to us about what ensues. I’ll bet it won’t be hilarity. Ain’t gonna be penis, either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/118 "2008-09-17T18:40:26Z")
I would hit a woman only for the same reason that I hit a man. If I am being violently threatened or already being hit by them. I see no reason for gender to make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/119 "2008-09-17T19:11:43Z")
If the ho doesn’t bring me my money, then you bet I’ll whup her skanky ass.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827/120 "2008-09-17T19:36:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Are you saying that he’d arrest you? OK then. Are you saying that he’d throw his weight around and beat the crap out of you? Is it OK if he does? Does that mean that the rest of us are entitled to as well? He will react as he would to any kind of physical assault on his person. \*After \* he has taken action to make you desist in that i.e.defended himself, he will arrest you in his capacity as a police officer. A spitter in that situation is going to be cuffed and sitting on the kerb in the end; whether a pepper spraying, baton strike, tasing, or some old fashioned punching and grappling happen along the way is going to largely depend on how the cop is trained and equipped. One thing is for sure, you aren’t going to do that to a cop and not get a physical response. Now here’s a question for you: Does a policeman have more of a right to defend himself in that scenario than you do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-situation-in-which-a-man-hitting-a-woman-would-be-ok/463827.md?page=7)