Is there any studies that show an alcoholic can begin moderate drinking?

[tapu]

@Kevbo

What I am saying is that for problem drinkers, no subsequent drink will be any easier to refuse than the first one. If for some reason you can’t (not talking about don’t want to, or social pressure) say no to the first one, then there is no way you are going to refuse the third one. Willpower and the ability to think rationally dissolves in alcohol. If you still have enough will to say no to the third, then you had it to say no to the second and first, and you just chose to drink.

For an alcoholic, wanting to drink, or choosing to say no doesn’t enter into it. I would frequently find myself drunk when I known full well beforehand that it was important to stay sober and at some earlier point had every earnest intention to do so. Not wanting to drink while at the same time driving myself to a liquor store is part of what AA people are talking about when they refer to insanity. I have never met an alcoholic who could not tell similar, if not identical, stories, and plenty of them. It is never a matter of “Do I want a drink?” but “When can I get a drink?” and “How will I avoid getting found out?”

Ditto.

Dude, that’s a great description of what it feels like inside–insane.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@tapu

Then I misunderstand… the OP. Completely.

As for your restatement of my question, yes, you’ve got it.

I don’t know how to make the OP any clearer, so let’s skip that.

As for me, I drank socially from the ages of about 12 to 18. I drank not a drop between the ages of 18 and 34. Now I drink socially again.

I have never had a problem with alcohol though, so I don’t presume to understand how alcoholism works. I’m just debating the topic with a friend for the sake of argument. We do that about countless topics, all over the board. We both like to ‘debate’ which really for us just means arguing, and we are incredibly passionate about being ‘right’. That’s what this thread is about. I believe that the success rate for an alcoholic is probably close for those who choose abstinence and those who choose to learn to drink moderately. I am fully prepared to be dead wrong, and probably am. I was hoping someone may surprise me with some numbers to show that I’m not.

As I was trying to search for numbers to support my position, I did note that defining alcoholism is part of the problem. That opened up a whole other set of questions for me and made the topic even more interesting than me just winning an argument with ‘Stan’.

[Simple_Linctus]

tapu I was serious when I agreed with you that it was a good idea to create another thread btw - I’ll certainly be participating

[sleestak]

@Nzinga_Seated

I don’t know how to make the OP any clearer, so let’s skip that.

As for me, I drank socially from the ages of about 12 to 18. I drank not a drop between the ages of 18 and 34. Now I drink socially again.

I have never had a problem with alcohol though, so I don’t presume to understand how alcoholism works. I’m just debating the topic with a friend for the sake of argument. We do that about countless topics, all over the board. We both like to ‘debate’ which really for us just means arguing, and we are incredibly passionate about being ‘right’. That’s what this thread is about. I believe that the success rate for an alcoholic is probably close for those who choose abstinence and those who choose to learn to drink moderately. I am fully prepared to be dead wrong, and probably am. I was hoping someone may surprise me with some numbers to show that I’m not.

As I was trying to search for numbers to support my position, I did note that defining alcoholism is part of the problem. That opened up a whole other set of questions for me and made the topic even more interesting than me just winning an argument with ‘Stan’.

A couple things. First, studying alcoholism in itself can be rather hard. Alkies ain’t the most responsible people in the world, believe it or not, and it is hard to get good data.

Second, the distinction between an alkie and a problem drinker aren’t always clear. There are lists of behaviors that might indicate a problem but there isn’t a test. The real indicator is how the person feels when denied a drink and that is certainly not objective and basically unknowable to an outside person. We can only go off of what people report and what we see them do.

Third, studies on moderation management I have found so far are a) self reporting b) small sample size and c) limited to drinkers who are not considered alcoholics. With the data I have found so far I don’t think there is a real conclusion that can be drawn.

Last, even Moderation Management itself acknowledges that some drinkers need to go the abstinence route.

The way I see it is that if drinking is a big enough problem that it is causing issues in your life either you can moderate, which is certainly fine, or you can’t. If you truly cannot moderate then the answer should be to quit. A program trying to teach someone to moderate who has a record of being unable to moderate in the past is, to me anyway, a very dangerous path to go down.

Slee