# Is there any truth to the idea of Marxism being Jewish? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039 "2015-05-01T19:40:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/1 "2015-05-01T19:40:40Z")
I know Marx and Trotsky were Jewish and Lenin had Jewish roots, but is the idea of communism and Marxism in general being influenced by Jewish root supported by facts at all or is it purely a falsehood designed to connect bigotry against the Jewish people with opposition to communism? Are there any Marxist/communist areas that are indeed very “Jewish” philosophically? I’ve always thought that (some) Christians hated Jews and Communists because they largely preach the same morals as Christianity only without a Christ. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/2 "2015-05-01T20:00:15Z")
Areas I meant “ideas” sorry ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/3 "2015-05-01T22:13:39Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I know Marx and Trotsky were Jewish and Lenin had Jewish roots, but is the idea of communism and Marxism in general being influenced by Jewish root supported by facts at all or is it purely a falsehood designed to connect bigotry against the Jewish people with opposition to communism? Are there any Marxist/communist areas that are indeed very “Jewish” philosophically? > > I’ve always thought that (some) Christians hated Jews and Communists because they largely preach the same morals as Christianity only without a Christ. Karl Marx was only a Jew in the technical, ethnic sense. He was baptized Lutheran, and was nonreligious as an adult. I’d say that his thinking owes at least as much to influences from Christianity as from Judaism. (There are strong apocalyptic elements within communism, for example, and of course the Book of Revelation is not a Jewish text). It’s probably true that communism had a disproportionately Jewish following in much of Europe, but the famous (ethnically Jewish) communist historian Eric Hobsbawm gives a pretty obvious explanation. Jews turned to left wing radicalism because most of the right wing radicalisms either excluded Jews or were actively hostile to Judaism. (with the obvious exception of Zionism). ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/4 "2015-05-01T23:15:12Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > It’s probably true that communism had a disproportionately Jewish following in much of Europe, but the famous (ethnically Jewish) communist historian Eric Hobsbawm gives a pretty obvious explanation. Jews turned to left wing radicalism because most of the right wing radicalisms either excluded Jews or were actively hostile to Judaism. (with the obvious exception of Zionism). It’s a little bit more than that. Jews were as disproportionately represented in Commissar ranks in wartime and post-war occupied Europe as in the US State Department today, possibly even more so! I recall in postwar Hungary(?) more than 50% of the Leadership Cadres were Jewish ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/5 "2015-05-01T23:33:05Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > It’s a little bit more than that. Jews were as disproportionately represented in Commissar ranks in wartime and post-war occupied Europe **as in the US State Department today, possibly even more so!** [Bolding mine] Wait. What? How would one even determine the percentage of Jews in the State Department? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/6 "2015-05-01T23:44:46Z")
Marx’s father was a Rabbi who later converted to Lutheranism for political expediency ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/7 "2015-05-01T23:48:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > [Bolding mine] Wait. What? How would one even determine the percentage of Jews in the State Department? Percentage isn’t really an issue. Only the leadership cadre numbers. Probably it would be easier and quicker if you nominated the senior State Department officials who aren’t Jewish? Someone has done a list that may assist you: [Who controls the State Department?](https://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-state-department/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/8 "2015-05-02T00:08:10Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > It’s probably true that communism had a disproportionately Jewish following in much of Europe, but the famous (ethnically Jewish) communist historian Eric Hobsbawm gives a pretty obvious explanation. Jews turned to left wing radicalism because most of the right wing radicalisms either excluded Jews or were actively hostile to Judaism. (with the obvious exception of Zionism). I think there’s some truth to this, but it’s also pretty poor collective judgment. Communists, due to their hostility to religious practice, weren’t any more friendly to Jews if they actually lived as devout Jews. Plus when it comes to ideology the enemy of your enemy is definitely not your friend. The only true friends the Jews had were in the democracies, and it’s towards democratic liberalism that they should have turned. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/9 "2015-05-02T00:25:19Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > Someone has done a list that may assist you: > > [Who controls the State Department?](https://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-state-department/) Good to see that the prestigious “The Zog” blog also lets us know who are the Negroes in the State Department. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/10 "2015-05-02T01:08:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Good to see that the prestigious “The Zog” blog also lets us know who are the Negroes in the State Department. Just to be perfectly clear, the blog jezza cites is a racist and anti-semitic site. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/11 "2015-05-02T01:20:42Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Just to be perfectly clear, the blog jezza cites is a racist and anti-semitic site. And just to be clear I’d never heard of it before today, but it does seem to have a handy list. Perhaps you could point out any errors or inaccuracies? Or perhaps comment on the seemingly well-founded premise that Jews are disproportionately represented in the State Department, in much the same way that Jews were disproportionately represented in the upper ranks of the Soviet Communist Parties? (I was going to quote Brother Nathanael on the State Department topic, but I sense that would tend to enrage some folk) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/12 "2015-05-02T01:20:56Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > Percentage isn’t really an issue. Only the leadership cadre numbers. Probably it would be easier and quicker if you nominated the senior State Department officials who aren’t Jewish? Someone has done a list that may assist you: > > [Who controls the State Department?](https://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-state-department/) Any list that implies, insinuates, or flat-out states as fact that someone having a Jewish spouse shows that person’s employer is “being controlled” to any extent whatsoever by the person’s spouse’s religious group is indicative of nothing else other than the list’s compiler’s vile prejudice. Of course, the site’s premise in the first place highlights the author’s prejudice anyway. Speaking of which, did you notice the out-of-date terminology used on that site, and the completely incorrect “identification” of at least one person’s ethnicity? Yeah, it’s a wonderful example of intellectual rigor. I feel dirty after reading that rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/13 "2015-05-02T01:36:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Speaking of which, did you notice the out-of-date terminology used on that site, and the completely incorrect “identification” of at least one person’s ethnicity? Yeah, it’s a wonderful example of intellectual rigor. I feel dirty after reading that rubbish. I’d hope you say much the same about this very common and ‘acceptable’ sort list as well? [List of Jewish Actors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_actors) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/14 "2015-05-02T01:42:55Z")
Saying that Lenin had “Jewish roots” is also disingenuous. Lenin was never a Jew. He was baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church when he was born; he renounced religion when he was a teenager and declared himself an atheist. Lenin’s father was Russian Orthodox and his mother was Lutheran. Lenin’s grandfather (his mother’s father) had been Jewish but he had converted to Orthodox Christianity when he was sixteen (which was fifteen years before Lenin’s mother was born). Lenin’s grandfather died when Lenin was three months old. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/15 "2015-05-02T01:45:22Z")
You know, or you should know, that there is a difference between noting people of a given ethnicity in any field, and imputing that they control that field to the exclusion of others, and further to imply that they advance the narrow interests of their own group to the neglect or expense of broader society. The blog you linked to is not compiling a list of Jews as a point of interest. They are doing it to push their bigoted notion that Jews ‘really’ run things instead of, I don’t know who and I’m not going to inquire. The list is premised on prejudice, which is not the case with the list of Jews who are actors. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/16 "2015-05-02T01:54:35Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > Or perhaps comment on the seemingly well-founded premise that Jews are disproportionately represented in the State Department, in much the same way that Jews were disproportionately represented in the upper ranks of the Soviet Communist Parties? For most of the 20th Century the State Department had the well-founded reputation of being the most anti-Semitic branch of the executive department. If there are more people with Jewish ties today, that’s a fascinating development. However, it means as much as saying that the U.S. is controlled by “Negros” because the President, the Secretary of Transportation, and the Attorney General are. Judaism is not a race. It is a personal belief. That some of your ancestors might have been Jewish has no necessary meaning whatsoever. Everyone on earth is related if you go back a mere 1000 years. Neither Karl Marx nor Lenin were Jewish in any conceivable non-racist sense of the word. Hector\_St\_Clare has it exactly correct that right-wing groups of every variety were mostly actively hostile to Jews in Europe, leaving them nowhere else to turn except to socialist and communist welcomers. Talking about “democratic liberalism” in 20th century Europe is delusionally laughable. I also disbelieve every single word jennaOZ says about Jewish Commissars. Especially in “post-war” Europe. Post what war? There is among some groups the belief that Jews and Communism are essentially synonymous. Wikipedia has an article on it called [Jewish Bolshevism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism) which reveals it as a conspiracy theory just as nutty as anyone other than jennaOZ one might imagine. > [@](#): > > An example of the exaggeration of Jewish influence in the Soviet Communist Party is the estimate by Alfred Jensen that in the 1920s “75 per cent of the leading Bolsheviks” were “of Jewish origin” quoted by journalist David Aaronovitch. Aaronovitch (a son of a Communist intellectual) notes that “a cursory examination of membership of the top committees shows this figure to be an absurd exaggeration”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/17 "2015-05-02T02:05:06Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > I’d hope you say much the same about this very common and ‘acceptable’ sort list as well? > > [List of Jewish Actors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_actors) And just where in that list of notable Jewish actors does it assert/imply/insinuate/go off the rails with an asinine assertion that “Jews control” their employer(s)? Look, it’s 10 a.m. here and I have to be somewhere soon to meet some people. Unless someone beats me to it, I’ll dedicate a BBQ Pit thread to you when I get back home. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/18 "2015-05-02T02:22:49Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > And just to be clear I’d never heard of it before today, but it does seem to have a handy list. Perhaps you could point out any errors or inaccuracies? It’s also got a handy list of people labelled “Negro”. You comfortable with that level of classification, jezzaOZ? That the sort of site you want to rely on? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/19 "2015-05-02T02:23:07Z")
Well, Joseph Goebbels thought Bolshevism was part of The Jewish Conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039/20 "2015-05-02T03:18:06Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Well, Joseph Goebbels thought Bolshevism was part of The Jewish Conspiracy. He thought everything was part of the Jewish Conspiracy, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-truth-to-the-idea-of-marxism-being-jewish/719039.md?page=2)