# Is there any veracity to the claims that I see that the NRA is an astroturf organization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746 "2013-01-10T15:02:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/21 "2013-01-10T19:41:00Z")
Is there even an objective definition of what makes an organization an “astroturf” one? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/22 "2013-01-10T19:54:38Z")
Instructors fees, and income from NRA Certified programs are also sources of income. Plus, they call their current members often and send out mailings asking if they’d like to donate more money. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/23 "2013-01-10T19:54:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I pulled this from [the NRA’s website.](http://www.nragive.com/#/ringoffreedom/text/generic_page,95) I already posted that upthread. About $14M annual total. Compare that to other NRA income. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/24 "2013-01-10T19:59:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I already posted that upthread. About $14M annual total. Compare that to other NRA income. It all depends on which has the stronger collective voice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/25 "2013-01-10T20:03:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It all depends on which has the stronger collective voice. The OP didn’t ask that. He asked where the NRA’s primary funding comes from. BTW, OP, it would help if you linked to those articles. You many have misinterpreted them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/26 "2013-01-10T20:11:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP didn’t ask that. He asked where the NRA’s primary funding comes from. You are correct, of course. If I’ve gone beyond what the OP intended I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/27 "2013-01-10T20:53:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is there even an objective definition of what makes an organization an “astroturf” one? Probably not. But I think it’s easy to discern an organization that began with a concerned citizen’s movement and bootstrapped itself into existence on a widespread base of support and donations, and one that popped into existence because a billionaire wrote a check and three people opened an office. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/28 "2013-01-10T21:43:08Z")
IMHO Astro-turfing is faking grass-roots credentials. Based on general media feeedback from across the country, we can see there is no shortage of Americans who agree with the NRA; whether it has some significant input from manufactueres adn retailers (and logically, it seems it is also an advocate for corporations like sports equipment retailers) this is not a case of a bunch of back-office guys faking websites and making up names and sending “john Q Public” letters to the editors. It certainly (appears to) have wide public involvement. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/29 "2013-01-10T22:20:47Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IMHO Astro-turfing is faking grass-roots credentials. Based on general media feeedback from across the country, we can see there is no shortage of Americans who agree with the NRA; whether it has some significant input from manufactueres adn retailers (and logically, it seems it is also an advocate for corporations like sports equipment retailers) this is not a case of a bunch of back-office guys faking websites and making up names and sending “john Q Public” letters to the editors. It certainly (appears to) have wide public involvement. I guess I’m wondering if it’s driven from the bottom up, or the top down. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/30 "2013-01-10T23:53:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I guess I’m wondering if it’s driven from the bottom up, or the top down. The upper echelons of the NRA are certainly, at the least, creating much divisiveness among the rank-and-file by their over-the-top psychotic positions. I am convinced that Wayne LaPierre, in particular, is a psychopath. (I came to this conclusion after hearing him in a mini-debate with a governor (of West Virginia?) on radio several years ago, after several police got shot and killed.) Some will recall that none other than George H. W. Bush (“Bush the Elder”) very publicly renounced his lifetime NRA membership in May, 1995 ([New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/11/us/an-angry-bush-ends-his-ties-to-rifle-group.html)) after a NRA fund-raising letter, written by LaPierre, referred to Federal law-enforcement agents as “jack-booted thugs” among other choice epithets. LaPierre’s latest psychopathic ravings have just gotten a [del]little bit[/del] whole lot louder and a [del]little bit[/del] whole lot worse. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/31 "2013-01-11T01:33:30Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The upper echelons of the NRA are certainly, at the least, creating much divisiveness among the rank-and-file by their over-the-top psychotic positions. I am convinced that Wayne LaPierre, in particular, is a psychopath. (I came to this conclusion after hearing him in a mini-debate with a governor (of West Virginia?) on radio several years ago, after several police got shot and killed.) > > Some will recall that none other than George H. W. Bush (“Bush the Elder”) very publicly renounced his lifetime NRA membership in May, 1995 ([New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/11/us/an-angry-bush-ends-his-ties-to-rifle-group.html)) after a NRA fund-raising letter, written by LaPierre, referred to Federal law-enforcement agents as “jack-booted thugs” among other choice epithets. > > LaPierre’s latest psychopathic ravings have just gotten a [del]little bit[/del] whole lot louder and a [del]little bit[/del] whole lot worse. And yet the rank and file are complaining that the NRA has gotten too timid and compromising in defending gun ownership; many complain that the NRA lobbyists have “gone native on the Beltway”. If you ever read about how Prohibition was passed, one thing that stands out is that the Drys insisted that the country was solidly behind them, and that the opposition was funded by the “saloon keepers and distilleries”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/32 "2013-01-11T03:37:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And yet the rank and file are complaining that the NRA has gotten too timid and compromising in defending gun ownership… I’m sorry, but where are you getting feedback like this? I haven’t seen anything even close to that from any rank and file members. I’ve seen complaints that maybe they should dial it back a bit this soon after a shooting, but I haven’t seen any complaints that they’ve gone soft. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/33 "2013-01-11T03:45:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but where are you getting feedback like this? I haven’t seen anything even close to that from any rank and file members. I’ve seen complaints that maybe they should dial it back a bit this soon after a shooting, but I haven’t seen any complaints that they’ve gone soft. That’s because the rank-and-file who think NRA is getting too soft have a CHOICE now: They can stop being rank-and-file NRA members and go over to the [Gun Owners of America](http://gunowners.org/) now instead. These are the people who think the NRA has been taken over by pussycats. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/34 "2013-01-11T03:56:53Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Probably not. But I think it’s easy to discern an organization that began with a concerned citizen’s movement and bootstrapped itself into existence on a widespread base of support and donations, and one that popped into existence because a billionaire wrote a check and three people opened an office. No, it’s not that easy. Name one organization that “popped into existence because a billionaire wrote a check and three people opened an office.”. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/35 "2013-01-14T21:41:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but where are you getting feedback like this? I haven’t seen anything even close to that from any rank and file members. I’ve seen complaints that maybe they should dial it back a bit this soon after a shooting, but I haven’t seen any complaints that they’ve gone soft. See \*\*Crafterman’s \*\*post above. Rob ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/36 "2013-01-15T02:24:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but where are you getting feedback like this? I haven’t seen anything even close to that from any rank and file members. I’ve seen complaints that maybe they should dial it back a bit this soon after a shooting, but I haven’t seen any complaints that they’ve gone soft. I’d be another one of those. Went to GOA when the NRA endorsed Michael Leavit for govenor of Utah, one year after he had called a special session of the legislature to try to pass a gun controll bill. Sure, he was a Republican incubant in Utah, so best to get on his good side, but don’t lie to me and tell me is is a solid supported of the 2nd amendment. Also, for the folks who find GOA’s stance to be too reasonable, there is always [JPFO](http://jpfo.org/). ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/37 "2013-02-12T00:06:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP didn’t ask that. He asked where the NRA’s primary funding comes from. > > BTW, OP, it would help if you linked to those articles. You many have misinterpreted them. Sorry it took so long, but I noticed one [here](http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/06/opinion/jones-guns-youth/index.html) (along with a few others in posts here on the Dope). > [@](#): > > For the decades of inaction, we can thank the National Rifle Association, a gun manufacturers’ lobby that has divorced itself from reality. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746/38 "2013-02-12T01:12:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it’s not that easy. Name one organization that “popped into existence because a billionaire wrote a check and three people opened an office.”. The Tea Party ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-veracity-to-the-claims-that-i-see-that-the-nra-is-an-astroturf-organization/646746.md?page=1)