# Is there any way an embassy can move a sanctuary seeker to its country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 16, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636 "2019-04-16T17:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/21 "2019-04-17T13:56:07Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Yes, I know. However, it doesn’t seem like they can revoke the diplomatic immunity and arrest them. Ah – the part about “aren’t required to accept anyone” in your previous post made me think you were talking about their visa status. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/22 "2019-04-17T14:41:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I was on assignment to the U.S. embassy in Vienna when Nadia Comăneci defected in 1989. She had made the overland trip from Bucharest mainly by foot and presented herself to the embassy in Vienna seeking asylum. She was then assisted by embassy personnel in getting to America. But in that case were the Austrian authorities trying to arrest her or otherwise interfere with her travel to the U.S. (or other countries through which she may have traveled)? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/23 "2019-04-17T19:03:46Z")
Don’t forget the Americans (or their toadies) forced down the aircraft of the Ecuadorian government - in outright violation of diplomatic and international law - and forced it to land in Vienna and be searched when they were looking for Snowden. There was word he was on board, so diplomatic niceties were off the table. Possession is 9/10th of the law, the other tenth is Guantanamo. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/24 "2019-04-17T20:09:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Fulton surface-to-air recovery system - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system)? The article says this is used with B-17s. Where the heck did that come from? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/25 "2019-04-17T20:30:05Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > But in that case were the Austrian authorities trying to arrest her or otherwise interfere with her travel to the U.S. (or other countries through which she may have traveled)? Probably not, but Romania wasn’t too happy about it. Embassy people picked her up in the dark of night, squirreled her away, and then got her on a plane out the next night. Very few people knew about it until she was safely on her way. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/26 "2019-04-17T22:06:39Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Probably not, but Romania wasn’t too happy about it. Embassy people picked her up in the dark of night, squirreled her away, and then got her on a plane out the next night. Very few people knew about it until she was safely on her way. Probably not, but so what? They could hardly ask for extradition since the “crime” has to be a crime in both countries in order to be subject to extradition and I hardly think defection is a crime in Austria. I know that a friend of mine left Romania illegally and went to England, from where he made his way to Canada and, eventually, to the US. At no time did he imagine that the local authorities would try to return him to Romania. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/27 "2019-04-17T22:23:55Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Probably not, but so what? They could hardly ask for extradition since the “crime” has to be a crime in both countries in order to be subject to extradition and I hardly think defection is a crime in Austria. I know that a friend of mine left Romania illegally and went to England, from where he made his way to Canada and, eventually, to the US. At no time did he imagine that the local authorities would try to return him to Romania. I think the worry was that Romanian agents might be on her trail, looking to scoop her up and return her to Romania. I didn’t travel in those circles, so that’s guesswork on my part. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/28 "2019-04-17T23:18:48Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > And I suppose [revoking it and shooting him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY) is right out? That’s actually ok. It falls under the so called “Hollywood exception.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/29 "2019-04-17T23:43:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Probably not, but Romania wasn’t too happy about it. Embassy people picked her up in the dark of night, squirreled her away, and then got her on a plane out the next night. Very few people knew about it until she was safely on her way. 10/10 defection. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/30 "2019-04-18T09:31:12Z")
[It’s been tried but the participant was unwilling.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/umaru-dikko-the-man-who-was-nearly-spirited-away-in-a-diplomatic-bag-8061664.html) Nigerian politician Umaro Dikko fled following a coup. He was kidnapped in London and an attempt made to smuggle him back to Nigeria in a diplomatic crate. There was a witness to the kidnap so authorities were on the alert for such and attempt and were able to rescue him just before they flew him out. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/31 "2019-04-18T09:59:14Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The article says this is used with B-17s. Where the heck did that come from? Project COLDFEET, [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet). ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/32 "2019-04-18T10:14:45Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A diplomatic bag is immune from search or seizure and a courier escorting a diplomatic bag is immune to search or arrest. See Article 27 of the [Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961](http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf) (pdf link) > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations …5.The diplomatic courier, who shall be provided with an official document indicating his status and the number of packages constituting the diplomatic bag, shall be protected by the receiving State **in the performance of his functions**. He shall enjoy person inviolability and shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. > [@](#): > > If the state granting asylum to someone in its embassy designates that person as a courier of its diplomatic bag then he/she would be immune from arrest. Of course if the hosting nation disregards diplomatic norms and arrests him/her anyway then all bets are off. It would seem like that “in the performance of his functions” creates a nice big loophole for any country that wishes to exploit it. I can imagine the Foreign Secretary stating “Of course Mr. Assange will be allowed to go about his duties as a diplomatic courier. Just as soon as he serves his sentence for jumping bail, which of course is not a function of a diplomatic courier.” Also, paragraph 4 of the article: > [@](#): > > 4.The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use. So putting a fugitive into a diplomatic bag is out. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/33 "2019-04-18T10:18:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post The article says this is used with B-17s. Where the heck did that come from? > [@yendis](#): > > Project COLDFEET, [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet). For a fictional demonstration, watch the John Wayne movie, The Green Berets. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/34 "2019-04-18T20:04:12Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > For a fictional demonstration, watch the John Wayne movie, The Green Berets. A real demonstration ends the Bond movie _Thunderball_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/35 "2019-04-20T19:36:21Z")
They never got around to using this: [http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5080575\_700b.jpg](http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5080575_700b.jpg) > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > …Also, paragraph 4 of the article: > > 4.The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use. > > So putting a fugitive into a diplomatic bag is out. Although, when the British closed the Libyan Embassy in London following the 1984 shooting death of a police officer by a shot fired from within the embassy, it was widely thought that weapon used had been removed from the UK via diplomatic bag: [Murder of Yvonne Fletcher - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/36 "2019-04-21T01:12:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > They never got around to using this: [http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5080575\_700b.jpg](http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5080575_700b.jpg) Love it! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/37 "2019-04-21T01:17:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Love it! Indeed, but they need some air holes drilled in that plywood. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/38 "2019-04-21T02:48:50Z")
You’re assuming they _want_ Julian in Ecuador … ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/39 "2019-04-21T03:08:58Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Looks better than my first thought, a really big diplomatic pouch, with holes. [Its been tried.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dikko_affair) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636/40 "2019-04-21T14:22:42Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > OK, clearly Ecuador did not want to take Assange to its own country but suppose that had been their wish. Would the ambassador’s car be considered Ecuadorian territory?.. It wouldn’t be considered Ecuadorian territory (neither is the embassy, that’s a myth), but British police wouldn’t be able to just stop & search a diplomatic vehicle. The problem is that the Ecuadorian Embassy in London is just a suite in an office building, not it’s own compound so there wouldn’t have been any way to get Assange from the embassy itself to the car without leaving the embassy (& thus subjecting himself to British jurisdiction). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-an-embassy-can-move-a-sanctuary-seeker-to-its-country/832636.md?page=3)