# Is there any way Ohio can have an honest election in November? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654 "2006-06-29T18:24:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/1 "2006-06-29T18:24:17Z")
[Kenneth Blackwell is **still** Ohio’s secretary of state; and, not incidentally, he’s running for governor.](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060717/gumbel) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/2 "2006-06-29T18:39:50Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/3 "2006-06-29T18:43:48Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Yes. Yes, if Blackwell either dies, resigns as Secretary of State, or stops running for the governorship. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/4 "2006-06-29T18:52:09Z")
Then you have some evidence that he’s planning vote fraud, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/5 "2006-06-29T18:56:05Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Then you have some evidence that he’s planning vote fraud, yes? No, I just believe that a candidate in an election, no matter how honest, should not also take part in conducting the election. Just as a judge should not preside over a case to which he or she is a party. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/6 "2006-06-29T19:03:34Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > No, I just believe that a candidate in an election, no matter how honest, should not also take part in conducting the election. Just as a judge should not preside over a case to which he or she is a party. why? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/7 "2006-06-29T19:04:44Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > why? Conflict of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/8 "2006-06-29T19:06:20Z")
Well, here in Washington state, the secretary of state is an elected office. And the Secretary of State can be re-elected, thus presiding over their own election. So why doesn’t anybody raise a stink? Yes, there’s a potential conflict of interest. If you want to subject this race to extra scrutiny, feel free. But to suggest that the bare fact that an incumbent secretary of state is seeking another elective office means honest election is impossible is pretty weak. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/9 "2006-06-29T19:07:10Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > why? Because a reasonable person might think that decision-makers, like a person running an election or a judge, might be biased in their own favour, and make decisions that favour themselves against the other candidates or parties. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/10 "2006-06-29T19:09:43Z")
Is “honest” defined as an election in which the Democrats win? Give us a little something to work with, **BG**. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/11 "2006-06-29T19:13:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is “honest” defined as an election in which the Democrats win? I’d define an honest election as one which is won by the candidate supported by a majority (or plurality, depending on the electoral laws) of those eligible to vote and wishing to vote in the election. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/12 "2006-06-29T19:16:15Z")
In Ohio, the actual voting is overseen at the county level by small bipartisan committees, the county boards of elections. The secretary of state is involved in administering who gets on the ballot and such, but he is not in a position to do much in the way of fraud. That’s more of a local matter. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/13 "2006-06-29T19:19:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Well, here in Washington state, the secretary of state is an elected office. And the Secretary of State can be re-elected, thus presiding over their own election. So why doesn’t anybody raise a stink? Same here in Ohio. In any case, Republicans across the entire state of Ohio, are mired in all sorts of legal difficulties right now. They don’t have much chance of taking any state office at all. The governorship might be the sole exclusion. > [@Giles](#): > > I’d define an honest election as one which is won by the candidate supported by a majority (or plurality, depending on the electoral laws) of those eligible to vote and wishing to vote in the election. So, as I aksed, you have some kinda bone you can throw us in support of your blanket assertion that the _only_ way Ohio can have an honest election this fall, is if Blackwell has no part in it? > [@John Mace](#): > > Give us a little something to work with, BG. Indeed. I’ve heard of poisoning the well before. But that ain’t someone one usually does to their own water supply. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/14 "2006-06-29T19:22:40Z")
Here’s what the Ohio government website says the Secretary of State does regarding elections: > [@](#): > > Chief Elections Officer > As Ohio`s chief election officer, Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell oversees the elections process and appoints the members of boards of elections in each of Ohio`s 88 counties. > He supervises the administration of election laws; approves ballot language; reviews statewide initiative and referendum petitions, chairs the Ohio Ballot Board, which approves ballot language for statewide issues; canvasses votes for all elective state offices and issues; investigates election fraud and irregularities; trains election officials and reimburses counties for poll worker training costs. > > The Elections Division compiles and maintains election statistics, political party records and other election-related records. Statewide candidates` campaign finance reports are filed with the office, together with the reports for state political action committees (PACs), state political parties and legislative caucus campaign committees. Here’s the [link](http://www.sos.state.oh.us/About.aspx?Section=100). He appoints the local election boards, but the boards always consist of the local party chairmen and one actual appointee. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/15 "2006-06-29T19:23:21Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > The secretary of state is involved in administering who gets on the ballot and such, but he is not in a position to do much in the way of fraud. That’s more of a local matter. From the linked article, Blackwell has been very active in issuing directions on such matters as voter registration. Not outright fraud, of course, but the right processes can cut down on your opponents’ electoral bases more than they do your own. It’s bad enough when you are doing it for others in your party, but being able to do it for yourself is very problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/16 "2006-06-29T19:29:21Z")
Oh, and two bits of trivia: (1) In spite of my location, I’m not a citizen of the state of Ohio, so I won’t be voting in November’s election. (2) My work telephone number has just two digits different from Ken Blackwell’s – one a diufferent digit, and one move to a different position. Indeed, I think on a couple of occasions I’ve had wrong numbers which were intended to go to his office ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/17 "2006-06-29T19:51:00Z")
But Secretary of State is a partisan position. Since that’s the case, how can ANY state that has a partisan Secy of State have an honest election? Why aren’t they complaining about Washington state, where we have a Republican Secretary of State, who can engage in electoral fraud in favor of his Republican cronies all day every day? _The Nation_ should be ashamed of themselves. If they have evidence that this guy is engaging in electoral fraud, bring the evidence. The fact that he’s Secretary of State and running for Governor is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/18 "2006-06-29T19:58:40Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Then you have some evidence that he’s planning vote fraud, yes? Depends on how you define “fraud.” Read the article linked in the OP. > [@](#): > > . . .The Republican candidate this November is none other than Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio’s Secretary of State, a man vilified by voting rights activists for a string of baffling and, to all appearances, nakedly partisan rulings in the 2004 presidential race, when he also doubled as co-chair of George Bush’s state re-election campaign. Now he’s at it again–issuing draconian guidelines on voter registration that carry the threat of felony prosecutions against grassroots get-out-the-vote groups, especially in Democratic-leaning urban areas, for even the slightest procedural irregularity. Despite denials from Blackwell’s office of any malicious political intent, the guidelines have had an immediate chilling effect on groups like the activist community organization ACORN, which has suspended registration efforts pending urgent consultations with its lawyers. Several leading Democrats have urged Blackwell to step aside from all election-supervising responsibilities, a proposal his staff has greeted with near-derision. That might not be fraud – but it’s not the makings of an honest election, either. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/19 "2006-06-29T20:04:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Depends on how you define “fraud.” Read the article linked in the OP. I did. What’s interesting about the section you quote, is that although the article is three pages, and the author insists Blackwell engaged in a “string of baffling and, to all appearances, nakedly partisan rulings in the 2004 presidential race,” he fails to provide even one such example. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654/20 "2006-06-29T20:08:50Z")
[Here ya go, Unc.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Blackwell#Involvement_in_the_2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy) Do you disagree that the \*appearance \* of impartiality matters? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-ohio-can-have-an-honest-election-in-november/362654.md?page=2)