# Is there any way to refrigerate foods w/o electricity **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957 "2005-05-29T04:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/21 "2005-05-29T13:24:59Z")
All this talk of making ice at night is sweet, but prob’ly not much use in Indiana in July! > [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > [Yep](http://www.antique-antiques.com/antique-icebox-iceboxes.shtml), it’s called an [ice box](http://www.wilsonantiquemall.com/bakerfridge.html). You could probably use a variation of the theme with [dry ice](http://www.arizonaiceman.com/diother.htm), as long as you are [careful](http://www.dryiceinfo.com/science.htm). Just to add to this: if this is for your impending [18 days of camping](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318567) , **Wesley Clark** , then get yourself a good cooler and some dry ice. For the first week, you will have a freezer. It will be cold enough to freeze meat solid and keep it there - but if you freeze your items beforehand in a conventional freezer, the dry ice will last even longer. (I use a separate cooler with plain ice for those things I don’t want frozen, like milk and yogurt.) For the next four or five days, you will have a kick-ass refrigerator. After that, you’ll have a standard cooler. Stop by and pick up more dry ice mid-adventure, and you can prolong it accordingly. Of course, if you’re staying near town, you can get less dry ice at once and have a refrigerator the whole time, but I find the freeze-first method best because then I don’t have to go shopping mid-trip for more food. It’s nice a safe in it’s frozen state. I wouldn’t eat hamburger that’s just been “regular-cooler-cold” for two weeks. Keep all your coolers in the shade, and you’ll be surprised how much longer your ice lasts. I am the Queen of cushy camping in style, so feel free to ask any other questions you have. Want lightweight backpacking camping advice? I ain’t got none. Want to be so comfortable you won’t want to go home? Come to my tent anytime! (er…that didn’t come out quite like I meant it to…) Here’s some dry ice suppliers [near you](http://www.dryicedirectory.com/usa.htm) , but I’m sure your yellow pages will yield someone in Bloomington proper. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/22 "2005-05-29T13:30:36Z")
Oh, I forgot to tell you what to do with the dry ice. Get it in several pieces, rather than one big chunk. Wearing gloves, wrap each piece of it in a few layers of paper towling, then pop each into a separate plastic bag and zipper or tape it shut. This way your cooler will still be cold, but the dry ice won’t evaporate as quickly and it’s not dangerous to touch when you’re rummaging through your cooler. Place these freezy-packs throughout your cooler, but save a layer for the top - since “coolth sinks”\*, it’s a better use of the ice. \*Yes, yes, I know, there’s no such thing as cold, just less hot. And it’s heat that rises, not coolth that sinks. Beat it. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/23 "2005-05-29T18:09:56Z")
Couldn’t you turn a compressor with any kind of rotating power source? Probably not the practical answer the OP was looking for but… Make a wood burning steam engine? Animal on treadmill/human on stationary bicycle? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/24 "2005-05-29T18:19:14Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Couldn’t you turn a compressor with any kind of rotating power source? Probably not the practical answer the OP was looking for but… > Make a wood burning steam engine? > Animal on treadmill/human on stationary bicycle? I think the Professor made on of these out of bamboo and coconut shells-had Gilligan pedaling like Tour de France. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/25 "2005-05-29T19:25:12Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Couldn’t you turn a compressor with any kind of rotating power source? Probably not the practical answer the OP was looking for but… > Make a wood burning steam engine? > Animal on treadmill/human on stationary bicycle? This is what I was getting at when I posted “As to the OP, I can think of numerous theoretical ways that a refrigerator could be designed to work if it had a constant source of energy, like a running stream or geothermal. None of which would likely ever be practical.” A running stream could power a compressor, and if one could tap into geothermal energy use that as a power source like the wood burning steam engine you mention. However, these ideas are only practical if a running stream or geothermal heat source happens to be available. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/26 "2005-05-29T20:20:09Z")
> [@bob fortuna](#): > > Listen, put up or shut up . the dark side of the moon isn’t even made of ice, Beerstien! I’m hoping that I don’t have to explain that there is not such a thing as “the dark side of the moon”. [**Liquid gold on the moon.**](http://whyfiles.org/060moons/ourmoon.html)] > [@](#): > > POSTED 26 MARCH 1998 On March 5, NASA scientists announced the discovery of water – good ol’ H2O – on the moon. Instead of a dusty, barren and dry satellite, our orbital companion now seems dusty, barren and wet. > > Well, not exactly sopping. But in craters near the lunar poles (which can’t be seen from Earth) the lunar soil apparently contains ice crystals. The scientists think the water was carried to the moon on astroids. So why isn’t there more ice on the moon (all sides). > [@](#): > > **Anywhere else on the moon, water would be vaporized by intense sunlight and lost to space.** ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/27 "2005-05-29T22:50:01Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > \*Yes, yes, I know, there’s no such thing as cold, just less hot. And it’s heat that rises, not coolth that sinks. Beat it. Actually, the denser cold air should sink just as readily as less-dense hot air rises. So coolth doth sink, verily. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/28 "2005-05-29T23:58:30Z")
Seems like the easier thing to do would be to just stick with fridge-free foods. Milk – make from powder as needed Butter – needs no refrigeration for an 18 day period, except that it might melt. Cheese – see butter Eggs – good for a week without refrigeration Meat – use canned, like tuna or chunk chicken, or see if you can find some inexpensive “country ham” – heavily salt cured and keeps indefinitely at room temperature (very common in the South. not sure about Indiana. Do you have a mennonite or Amish market near you? they might have it) So other than dairy and meat (problems therein solved above), what do you need a fridge for? ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/29 "2005-05-29T23:59:55Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > I’m hoping that I don’t have to explain that there is not such a thing as “the dark side of the moon”. > [**Liquid gold on the moon.**](http://whyfiles.org/060moons/ourmoon.html)] > > The scientists think the water was carried to the moon on astroids. So why isn’t there more ice on the moon (all sides). That depends on your definition of “the dark side of the moon”. When I mentioned it, I meant the hemisphere that is currently facing away from the Sun. Excluding parts of the polar regions, I’d assume that any ice on, or near, the surface would rapidly sublimate or boil off. Daylight surface temperatures approach 400K and the atmospheric pressure is almost zero. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/30 "2005-05-30T00:10:37Z")
Basically, the large majority of foods we refigerate don’t _require it_ per se, it just makes them keep longer and more conveniently. Some more tips: Condiments – get ketchup, mustard and shelf stable mayo packets from fast food places (also things like bbq sauce and ranch dressing, even lemon juice and honey are available if you look around.) These things only need refrigeration _after opening_. Single serving packets solves that problem Bread – keeps a week in average humidity conditions, but flour tortillas keep much, much better. Fruits & veggies – buy fresh (eat within 1 week) or small cans (4oz or however much you think you’ll eat in 1 meal without leftovers). High water content veggies with relatively tough skins like cucumbers, tomatoes and green peppers keep better than lettuce. Acually, everything keeps better than greens. Here’s a recipe: 1 packet Lipton cheesy noodle side dish (or store brand equivalent or 1 box mac n’cheese) 1 can tuna, drained 1 small (4 oz) can peas, drained make noodles according to directions, using powdered milk (or canned evaporated milk if you prefer) add tuna add peas stir enjoy! Endless combinations of quick cooking noodles/rice packets + protein + vegetable await! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/31 "2005-05-30T00:35:12Z")
> [@Hello Again](#): > > Seems like the easier thing to do would be to just stick with fridge-free foods. Easier, certainly. But not as cushy! 😃 Seriously, when I’m camping, I’m usually feeding about five kids (one mine, two goddaughters and at least two campground strays). Ever try to get a city kid to drink powdered milk? I think it would be easier to get cats to drink the stuff. Keeping their diet as close to home diet as possible is very important when avoiding sickness and general grumpiness. It also helps to have cold storage for leftovers, because you never know when the kids will be hungry, or when they’ll be nowhere to be found around dinnertime, only to show up an hour later cheeping like hungry vulture babies. But your point is well taken. If it were just me camping, and I hadn’t done the whole freezer thing in the past, I probably could avoid refrigerated foods. And the condiment packet idea is a spectacular one. I purchased a case of each from Sam’s Club a couple of years back when I was the cook for a camp of 50, and it was wonderful! I didn’t have to listen to a single whiner worried about the mayo! Butter, however, will melt in July Indiana heat. It will very quickly after that go rancid. Likewise, the cheese will start weeping almost immediately, and become pretty inedible in an afternoon. But I hear it is indeed possible to camp without cheese, strange as that may sound. But what’s the point of camping without cold beer, I asks ya? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SpectBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@SpectBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpectBrain)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/32 "2005-05-30T01:00:12Z")
I know that [Jet Engine Powered Beer Cooler](http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/) is fanciful and has probably been mentioned in the dope before, but I can’t help but admire the back yard engineering that went into this project. ---
**Author:** ![JimMacMillan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7bcc69/32.png) [@JimMacMillan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimMacMillan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/33 "2005-05-30T01:30:12Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Why do you think the surface of the Moon is so cold on its dark side? FWIW, The moon actually rotates on it own axis in the same time it takes for it to orbit the the earth. That is why we see the same face everynight. That would leave me to believe the dark side isn’t static. Maybe during its sidereal rotation one side is always away from the sun? I don’t know. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/34 "2005-05-30T01:38:09Z")
Nonelectric fridges are fairly common and are a well-proven technology. The most common example in America are the fridges in motor homes. These are usually dual-power types that use electricity when the vehicle is plugged in to a power source and the on-board natural gas the rest of the time. When I was a child we had an old kerosene-powered fridge in the shed. It worked fine and the technology was still in use in Panama years ago. The ads for these gadgets (in Panama) pointed out they make ice ‘as quietly as nature.’ This is because they do not use a compressor. Instead the fuel is burned, the heat compresses the ammonia coolant and away we go. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/35 "2005-05-30T01:55:12Z")
> [@JimMacMillan](#): > > FWIW, The moon actually rotates on it own axis in the same time it takes for it to orbit the the earth. That is why we see the same face everynight. > > That would leave me to believe the dark side isn’t static. Maybe during its sidereal rotation one side is always away from the sun? I don’t know. > > Jim It isn’t static. I know that. I meant the hemisphere of the Moon that is facing away from the Sun at some instant in time, like the night side of the Earth. I didn’t mean to imply that one side is in permanent darkness. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/36 "2005-05-30T01:55:15Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It’s a bit counter-intuitive but the physics is sound. Objects will come into thermal equilibrium with their “surroundings”. However, in this case, you’ve thermally isolated it from the earth so the only surroundings it has is deep space. Put another way, the water inside the cooler has no way of “knowing” if it’s on earth or if it’s on the dark side of the moon. I think there’s a bit more to it than that - I don’t think it would work over here in Alabama. If it works in the desert (as it reportedly does), it’s because (a) the sky is especially “cold” (emits very little infrared radiation) because there is very little moisture in the upper atmosphere, and (b) evaporative cooling works very effectively because of the low humidity, and contributes to the cooling. ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/37 "2005-05-30T03:55:24Z")
Have you heard of an Einstein Refrigerator? I’m still not clear on whether you can build it yourself easily or where you can buy one if not. I’m also not sure if this is similar to the design that is used on motor homes and campers. There is a diagram on the US patent office website if you feel like searching for it. Here are some articles: [[1](http://gtalumni.org/Publications/magazine/sum98/einsrefr.html),[2](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_Refrigerator)] ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/38 "2005-05-30T04:14:57Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Doesn’t evaporation begat refrigeration? Or does that only work on skin with sensory nerve endings? Since no-one responded to this… Evaporation does cool things down. It takes energy to evaporate water, and the water draws that energy from it’s surroundings. Evaporating water can cool an area down a fair amount depending on how humid the air is. Evaporative cooling in Alabama in July you may see 5 degree drop because not much water actually evaporates into the existing mugginess. In Phoenix you may get 25 degree drop year round. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/39 "2005-05-30T05:07:22Z")
[Solar Powered Ice Maker Thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5352508) ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957/40 "2005-05-30T05:42:45Z")
why is this not taught to my kids girl scout troop.[caca poopoo](http://lists.nau.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0403&L=phys-l&F=&S=&P=21238) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-way-to-refrigerate-foods-w-o-electricity/305957.md?page=3)