# Is there anything about Biden that you actually admire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 11, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047 "2020-07-11T19:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/142 "2020-07-14T17:32:05Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Of course they are fragile and temporary. They can’t be anything else. There is no way to make such gains permanent; anything that can be done, by any system of government, or any non-system of anarchy for that matter, can be undone by somebody else at some point in the future. > > We have to fight these same battles over, and over, and over again[.] Kudos. If I can claim to have learned one thing from my shy-of-50 years on this planet, it’s this. “Progress” is a process, not a goal, and the “enemy” is never vanquished. The only way Reply’s dreamed-of reforms become permanent is with a dictatorship far more ruthless than anything America has experienced up to now. I don’t think the tradeoff is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/143 "2020-07-14T19:06:40Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > The only way Reply’s dreamed-of reforms become permanent is with a dictatorship far more ruthless than anything America has experienced up to now. I don’t think the tradeoff is worth it. It’s especially not worth it because that wouldn’t do it either. The next dictator up might decide to enforce something else. Or people might rebel against the dictator, and, having done so, decide that they were going to ditch everything the dictator had done, the good along with the bad. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/144 "2020-07-14T19:25:21Z")
He was my choice all along. He has many qualities I admire: He pushed Obama along on gay rights He helped Obama make history by being elected He has overcome personal adversity He isn’t a grifter He loves his family, and rode the train from DE to DC every day to be with them at night He has genuine empathy. He can work with both sides of the aisle. I’m tickled that he got the nomination because he can win. Sanders could not. Biden is as comfortable as an old pair of shoes. A good transitional, likely one term, president to take us from batshit crazy racist back to sanity and will hand off to a slightly more liberal Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/145 "2020-07-14T20:45:15Z")
I admire his common (or maybe uncommon) decency. Rare among politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/146 "2020-07-14T22:36:03Z")
Quick update: Biden just announced a [$2 trillion climate action plan](https://joebiden.com/clean-energy/), which actually seems like a really big deal. I will be doing a deeper read this week, but for what it’s worth, if this is really as far-reaching as it seems at first glance – a Green New Deal by another name – it would be enough to change my vote. It’s a heartening development, for sure, and I will eat my words and grovel in gratitude if this happens. Fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/147 "2020-07-14T22:41:17Z")
Why is it I can’t seem to find any posts, let alone threads, by anyone saying “I think both sides are equally bad…and here are all the problems with Trump”. A lot of supposed fence sitters seem to spend their time bad-mouthing the Democratic Party, Obama, Biden et al, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/148 "2020-07-14T22:43:36Z")
There are several entire threads devoted to discussing just how #$%^&! awful Donald Trump is as POTUS. No need to compare and contrast. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/149 "2020-07-14T22:53:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > {…} A lot of supposed fence sitters seem to spend their time bad-mouthing the Democratic Party {…} Ahem, _Democrat Party_. 🤓 CMC ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/150 "2020-07-14T23:18:16Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > IOW Biden will set up fragile band-aids without addressing any underlying structural causes, and he’ll lose those gains twice over with the next Republican president. “Hey, Obama got us Trump, so maybe Obama-lite will fix things!” > > “Restoring” things means, what, winding the clock back to 2016, with all the same social conditions still there, but worsened after four years of Trump, worsened by climate change, worsened by the coronavirus, worsened by our foreign relations… but hey, at least he’s not Trump? Play this out… what exactly do you think will magically happen in 4 years? I think that anyone who believes the election of one person who works within the legal, traditional structure of our government is ever going to make immense, lasting change, no matter who that person is, is naive. Further s/he is ill educated in history. People like Trump are able to “accomplish” a lot in a short amount of time for two reasons: 1) They are utterly lawless, and 2) It’s ever so much easier to tear something down than build lasting change. I’d wager I’ve lived a fair few years longer than you. I have the benefit of painful hindsight to understand just how difficult it is to build consensus and establish a solid rung on the ladder of change. Think how long and hard Al Gore worked to see recognition of climate change as a bona fide disaster. Think how many years of his life John Kerry dedicated to implementation of the Iran nuclear agreement. This shit is hard. Trump tore it all apart like so much wet tissue paper in his first few months in office. That’s how hard this shit is. How do you address the “underlying structural causes” of people not believing in climate change? Which candidate running on the Dem side of the aisle in the primaries had the wherewithal to restore the Iranian nuclear agreement? Which candidate is going to miraculously eliminate systemic racism? There’s no magic wand. There’s no wizard or sorceress. You erroneously assume I believe getting “back to normal” is good enough. You are so far wrong. But we’ll for sure be going backward even faster if we don’t manage to claw our way back to there. I’m not even convinced we’re in time to do that. Biden, better than anyone else who was running, understands this. You look at him and see a goofy old goat. I look at him and see a man who has successfully learned from his mistakes and who has actually accomplished things over his 45 year career in politics. Joe Biden has walked the walk. He understands how painful, slow and incremental true change is. It’s easy to sit back and lob spitballs. Accepting that compromise is how things get done requires maturity and scope. We can scream about wanting instant change all we want, but until teh American People™ catch up, _nothing_ happens. Which is why, if you decide to throw your vote away, the irony is so rich: You’ll literally work against your own best interests. I hope you decide to do better for yourself and your future. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/151 "2020-07-15T00:11:11Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think that anyone who believes the election of one person who works within the legal, traditional structure of our government is ever going to make immense, lasting change, no matter who that person is, is naive. Further s/he is ill educated in history. I have one name for you: Roosevelt. What he built was not so easy to tear down. Although some of it was torn down, alas. Is Biden a Roosveltian candidate? Probably not, alas. But we can still hope for some useful changes. First win the senate. Kill the filibuster. Yes it works both ways but the Republicans managed to get the only thing they ever cared about–tax cuts for the needy rich–using an end run around it. Then do what needs to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/152 "2020-07-15T00:14:56Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have one name for you: Roosevelt. What he built was not so easy to tear down. Although some of it was torn down, alas. Is Biden a Roosveltian candidate? Probably not, alas. But we can still hope for some useful changes. That’s fair. But you’ll allow that things have changed a bit since Roosevelt’s time. Obama made some pretty significant strides as well, but Republicans didn’t spend more than a decade trying to undo what Roosevelt accomplished. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > First win the senate. Kill the filibuster. Yes it works both ways but the Republicans managed to get the only thing they ever cared about–tax cuts for the needy rich–using an end run around it. Then do what needs to be done. I was slow to come to this conclusion about the filibuster, but I agree. McConnell can whine and cry all he wants to, but this is on him. He polarized the Senate like a rattlesnake in a pit. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/153 "2020-07-15T00:19:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is it I can’t seem to find any posts, let alone threads, by anyone saying “I think both sides are equally bad…and here are all the problems with Trump”. A lot of supposed fence sitters seem to spend their time bad-mouthing the Democratic Party, Obama, Biden et al, though. They are not fence sitters. There’s a reason that the Russians promoted Jill Stein. This whole “get rid of the 2 party system, vote third party” narrative is a deliberate act to discourage participation from Joe Sixpack. It’s coordinated and you can find plenty of examples of bots and agents astroturfing exactly this message across social media. Who do you think creates the memes and bumper stickers that say “Meteor 2020” or “Any Functioning Adult 2020”…it’s not organic. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/154 "2020-07-15T00:23:03Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have one name for you: Roosevelt. What he built was not so easy to tear down. Although some of it was torn down, alas. Is Biden a Roosveltian candidate? Probably not, alas. But we can still hope for some useful changes. Roosevelt had a Congress backing him up. Our best hope is the Democrats can hold the Congress and Presidency for at least a decade. And that requires voters vote for Democrats. And remove the filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/155 "2020-07-15T00:39:26Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Who do you think creates the memes and bumper stickers that say “Meteor 2020” or “Any Functioning Adult 2020”…it’s not organic. How is “Any Functioning Adult 2020” a Russian message? I thought it meant “Anyone who isn’t Trump”. Which, last I checked, was down to Biden. ---
**Author:** ![barkodogo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/barkodogo/32/3911_2.png) [@barkodogo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barkodogo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/156 "2020-07-15T00:40:30Z")
He hasn’t always been right (not by a long shot) but he’s reasonable. He’s experienced hardships and can empathize with others (this is a low bar, but I seriously do not think Trump is capable of empathy). He’s been getting shit from the far-left but he has actually been listening. While he hasn’t accepted their policies full-bore, he’s already made some meaningful shifts. Maybe he’s a vanilla moderate that ultimately won’t accomplish much. But given the two options (the system is designed to prevent a third party from winning), he’s an oasis in the Sahara. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/157 "2020-07-15T00:46:00Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > How is “Any Functioning Adult 2020” a Russian message? I thought it meant “Anyone who isn’t Trump”. Which, last I checked, was down to Biden. No, the implication is that the gaffe prone Biden is just as bad. If it were a Biden promotion, it would say Biden on it. Of course Trump, being Trump and being the incumbent makes this kind of message something other than absurd, but it’s basically another way of saying the entire prospect of an election is pointless. The subtlety is what makes it effective and what makes it seem innocuous. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/158 "2020-07-15T00:48:34Z")
> [@barkodogo](#): > > (the system is designed to prevent a third party from winning) No it’s not. It’s a side effect of the way we vote. ---
**Author:** ![barkodogo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/barkodogo/32/3911_2.png) [@barkodogo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barkodogo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/159 "2020-07-15T01:05:37Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > No it’s not. It’s a side effect of the way we vote. Potato potato. Unless the system changes, a third party candidate won’t win. Maybe it wasn’t intentionally designed that way from the onset, but it’s intentionally kept that way. > [@Omniscient](#): > > No, the implication is that the gaffe prone Biden is just as bad. If it were a Biden promotion, it would say Biden on it. “Any functioning adult” predates the primaries by years. If it’s an attempt to undermine it’s certainly a long-con. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/160 "2020-07-15T01:46:13Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Biden just announced a [$2 trillion climate action plan](https://joebiden.com/clean-energy/), which actually seems like a really big deal. I will be doing a deeper read this week, but for what it’s worth, if this is really as far-reaching as it seems at first glance – a Green New Deal by another name – it would be enough to change my vote. It’s a heartening development, for sure, and I will eat my words and grovel in gratitude if this happens. Fingers crossed I’m glad to see this post. – there’s a great deal to read on the linked page. At a first glance I note that Biden’s got the sense to tie environmental work, infrastructure, and jobs together. Way too many people are trying to pit the environment against jobs, instead of pointing out that fixing the mess we’re in will take a whole lot of work at a wide variety of jobs and there’s money to be made doing that work. ---
**Author:** ![deRanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@deRanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deRanger)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047/161 "2020-07-15T02:28:30Z")
Joe is persistent. He’s attacking his senility resolutely. Biden recently got a hair stylist, a voice coach, some massive cognitive supplements including testosterone and HGH. Seriously, 55 years in politics must have taught him some survival skills while in the swamp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-anything-about-biden-that-you-actually-admire/915047.md?page=9)