# Is there crime in ant colonies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172 "2016-02-04T20:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/1 "2016-02-04T20:44:20Z")
Does, say, a worker ant ever go rogue and try to eat the Queen, or anything like that? More generally, are eusocial animals always thoroughly adherent to their biologically prescribed roles? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/2 "2016-02-04T20:50:30Z")
Yes, ants cheat, but it’s mainly about reproduction. [How Cheating Ants Give Themselves Away](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090108121616.htm) > [@](#): > > In ant society, workers normally give up reproducing themselves to care for their queen’s offspring, who are their brothers and sisters. When workers try to cheat and have their own kids in the queen’s presence, their peers swiftly attack and physically restrain them from reproducing. Even ant royalty is corrupt: [Cheating and Corruption Rampant Among … Ants](http://www.livescience.com/2372-cheating-corruption-rampant-ants.html) > [@](#): > > Although ants are noted for their communal cooperation, the ranks of ant royalty are actually riddled with cheating and corruption, a new study finds. > > Ant queens were thought to be the products of nurturing, as certain larvae were fed foods that prompted their development into queens, with any larvae having an opportunity to ascend to the royal ranks. > > But researchers who used DNA fingerprinting on five colonies of leaf-cutting ants found that the offspring of some fathers were more likely to become reproductive queens than others. > > “These ants have a ‘royal’ gene or genes, giving them an unfair advantage and enabling them to cheat many of their altruistic sisters out of their chance to become a queen themselves,” said study team member Bill Hughes of the University of Leeds in the U.K. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/3 "2016-02-04T21:02:22Z")
Fascinating! From the second article: > [@](#): > > “If there were too many of one genetic line developing into queens in a single colony, the other ants would notice and might take action against them,” Hughes said. Is this speculation, or has such enforcement of genetic equality actually been observed in ants? ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/4 "2016-02-04T22:48:17Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Does, say, a worker ant ever go rogue and try to eat the Queen, or anything like that? I’ve read somewhere that this can happen under the influence of the chemical substances exuded by some beetles, which thus benefit by imposing as the queen. I guess the poor ants might plead temporary insanity… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/5 "2016-02-04T23:39:48Z")
Yes, some beetles move into an ant colony, and rub ant all over themselves, and since they smell like an ant the other ants think they’re an ant. So they go around eating larvae and stuff and ants can’t figure it out. Not strictly ant-on-ant crime though. You probably know about Ant Slavery, right? [Slave-making ant - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave-making_ant) Again, probably not exactly what you were looking for, since it’s one species of ant enslaving ants from another species, not a worker ant going rogue against their own colony and getting tattoos and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/6 "2016-02-05T02:03:49Z")
There are also multiple species of ants which have no workers, but whose queens sneak into established ant hives of other species that do have workers. They ambush and murder the resident queen, and then smear her bodily fluids over themselves to fool the resident workers into thinking that they are the queen. The resident workers then raise the parasite queen’s eggs, all of which hatch into new drones and queens to infect more nests. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/7 "2016-02-05T02:51:46Z")
This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in a long time! Are there any animals that have anything approaching an organized criminal justice system (e.g. with designated justice officials, investigations, trials, imposition of specific sentences, probation, etc.), or is it more a case of the “behaving” animals taking justice into their own hands and dispatching the offender rapidly? E.g. do ant colonies sometimes have ants that receive extra special supervision due to a prior offense committed by the ant? ---
**Author:** ![Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anarcho_Liberalist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/8 "2016-02-05T09:40:04Z")
I don’t think ants have enough brain cells in their little heads to do much more than simply follow chemical cues, which has through evolution led to some awkward situations such as slavery, usurper queens and beetles chemically dressed up as ants. Dereliction of duty does happen in a sense. Just look at a group of ants sucking at a drop op syrup like it’s a crack pipe - if they find food they’re supposed to take it home for the greater good, but some stuff is apaparently just too good to share. I’m afraid they’re never courtmashalled for their behaviour though. On a side note: an interesting novel in this respect is _Les Fourmis_ (The Ants) by Bernard Werber. The story uses actual ant behaviour and colony mechanisms to tell the story. It was long ago that I read it, but if I’m not mistaken the story revolves around some in-colony conspiracy. Dunno if it was ever translated into English. It should be. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/9 "2016-02-05T14:01:40Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > This is one of the most interesting threads I have seen in a long time! > > Are there any animals that have anything approaching an organized criminal justice system (e.g. with designated justice officials, investigations, trials, imposition of specific sentences, probation, etc.), or is it more a case of the “behaving” animals taking justice into their own hands and dispatching the offender rapidly? E.g. do ant colonies sometimes have ants that receive extra special supervision due to a prior offense committed by the ant? Well, kangaroos are known to hold court, though their justice system seems a bit rigged. This whole thing about ant queens invading a worker colony is giving me ideas about squishing a queen ant, keeping her scent on my finger, and proceeding to rule an ant colony of my very own! _Do my bidding, lowly ants! Bring me my beer! …and find the remote while your at it…_ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/10 "2016-02-05T14:50:36Z")
Won’t anyone think of the larvae! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/11 "2016-02-05T14:54:03Z")
Fascinating thread! Didn’t know ants could be so sneaky, selfish and subversive. > [@Anarcho\_Liberalist](#): > > …I’m afraid they’re never courtmashalled for their behaviour though… Nitpick: It’s “court-martialed.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/12 "2016-02-05T14:56:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Fascinating thread! Didn’t know ants could be so sneaky, selfish and subversive. > Nitpick: It’s “court-martialed.” Oh yeah? How do you know what ants call it? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/13 "2016-02-05T15:02:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh yeah? How do you know what ants call it? 😛 They probably call it something like: two squirts of dihydro-methanol followed by one squirt of pheno-carbolic acid. Believe it or not, I got through all my schooling without ever taking a chemistry class! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/14 "2016-02-05T15:08:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh yeah? How do you know what ants call it? 😛 My Aunt Annie told me. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/15 "2016-02-05T15:08:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They probably call it something like: two squirts of dihydro-methanol followed by one squirt of pheno-carbolic acid. > > Believe it or not, I got through all my schooling without ever taking a chemistry class! Do you want ants? Cuz that’s how we get ants. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/16 "2016-02-05T15:12:20Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Do you want ants? Cuz that’s how we get ants. Or, Malorys. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/17 "2016-02-05T15:15:44Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Are there any animals that have anything approaching an organized criminal justice system ? Supposedly, there are “crow trials” (they would gather to punish/kill an offender)but I wouldn’t know if they have any basis in reality. Chimps seem to be sensitive to fairness. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/18 "2016-02-05T15:16:19Z")
I recall reading somewhere that for ants, things are either Done or Not Done. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/19 "2016-02-05T15:42:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Chimps seem to be sensitive to fairness. I want to know more. ---
**Author:** ![Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Anarcho\_Liberalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anarcho_Liberalist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172/20 "2016-02-05T16:03:55Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Are there any animals that have anything approaching an organized criminal justice system (e.g. with designated justice officials, investigations, trials, imposition of specific sentences, probation, etc.), or is it more a case of the “behaving” animals taking justice into their own hands and dispatching the offender rapidly? E.g. do ant colonies sometimes have ants that receive extra special supervision due to a prior offense committed by the ant? I feel a positive thrill just imagining such things, but I’m afraid that the large majority of - if not all - animals simply lack the brain capacity to even begin to grab the moral concept of right and wrong which leaves ‘crime’ as a concept far beyond their grasp, let alone trials and justice. Even in human history that whole idea is a relatively modern concept. For a long time we didn’t even get much further than some debate whether an offender should be killed or ‘only’ ostracized from the community As for my misspelling of court martialed: I’m not a native speaker of English and always embarrased when it shows [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-crime-in-ant-colonies/745172.md?page=2)