# Is there currently any sane, intellectual leadership in the Republican party? If so, who? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768 "2010-03-25T17:23:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/41 "2010-03-25T21:09:49Z")
I think there are pundits and writers like Ross Douthat and David Frum who are rational and informed. There are also some governors who do not seem totally radical. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mitch Daniels, Charlie Crist. But none technically lead the GOP. However they seem to be the voices of reason and sanity. My impression of Romney is that he is basically just trying to ride the tide to power and has no interest in good or bad. He is like the republican equivalent of John Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/42 "2010-03-25T21:10:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The most sane and intellectual leadership in the GOP right now probably comes from the relatively moderate conservative columnists (print only), such as David Frum and David Brooks. David Frum was just [fired](http://www.frumforum.com/aei-says-goodbye) by the American Enterprise Institute. He [says](http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/republican-party/david-frum-denies-he-was-terminated-for-slamming-gop/) it was because of financial difficulties of AEI. Bruce Bartlett says that, now that Frum is no longer employed by AEI, he feels free to report something Frum told him pivately several months ago: > [@](#): > > Since, he is no longer affiliated with AEI, I feel free to say publicly something he told me in private a few months ago. He asked if I had noticed any comments by AEI “scholars” on the subject of health care reform. I said no and he said that was because they had been ordered not to speak to the media because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/43 "2010-03-25T21:11:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > While relatively sane, Lindsy Graham doesn’t seem to control many votes beyond his own, So I don’t think he can be called much of a GOP leader. He’s constantly on the Sunday talk shows as the face of the Republican Party. Not many Senators "control many votes’, so unless you limit yourself to the 3 or 4 official leaders in Congress, you’re going to have to go to the senior members in Congress, especially in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/44 "2010-03-25T21:13:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Whoa, steady! I heard about the gunshot, did not hear that the shooter’s motivation was to punish Cantor for not stopping HCR. Advise? > [@](#): > > It’s clear from the Richmond police statement that Cantor’s office was not directly targeted. Rather, an office that he has used in the past (but not his main campaign office) was randomly struck by a bullet that had been fired into the sky. > **[Cantor's story unravels](https://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/25/850797/-Cantors-story-unravels)** > > Greg Sargent reminds us of the exact words used by Eric Cantor earlier today when ... ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/45 "2010-03-25T21:16:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > There are also some governors who do not seem totally radical. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mitch Daniels, Charlie Crist. Incidentally, Crist is running for the Senate, and he’s probably going to lose a primary to a more conservative Republican. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/46 "2010-03-25T21:17:55Z")
Honest engine, **Astorian** , without a hint of snark, I wish that were true. Thing is, the moderate leadership did control the party for years and years, but increasingly made a corrupt bargain with its extreme elements, and a dishonest bargain as well. The pretended that they were “on board”, sometimes with a broad wink and dog whistle rhetoric, in order to exploit the energy and commitment of the True Believers. But they knew, or should have known, that there was no way they were ever, ever going to deliver on the agenda, it just wasn’t going to happen. Sooner or later, such a fragile mechanism was bound to break down, and it has. Now they have the wretched choice: make a deal with the nuthatches, and afford them more control, and lose, or throw the nuts overboard and rely on a compelling and intelligent presentation of their views. And lose. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/47 "2010-03-25T21:18:09Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] What is it with the “rammed down their throats” meme? I see it used over and over again. Rammed as in 14 months of work on it? Rammed as in setting up a committee of three democrats and three republicans to hammer out a health care reform bill (inexplicably because the Dems were in the majority and handed that away to even it up)? Rammed as in adding in stuff republicans wanted only to have them vote no regardless? Rammed as in Obama (inexplicably) be conciliatory and trying to work with Reps despite Reps siding with tea baggers who thought Obama was a Socialist/Fascist/Kenyan Manchurian Candidate who wanted death panels? [/QUOTE] RL intrudes, sadly, but I didn’t want you to think I was running off without responding. I think there are two sides to this issue, and it depends on ones perspective as to whether or not the Dems made a good faith effort to include the Republicans in their plans or rammed it down there throats. Had they not used the methods they did to ultimately get this passed then I think the Dems would be in a stronger position. That said, I freely concede that the Republicans were idiots on this, that they proposed no alternatives and were obstructionist from the get go. So…in essence, and on reflection, I concede the point that this stuff was rammed down their collective throats. Doubt my admission of error will make much difference, but sometimes I allow myself to get carried away when debating…and this was one of those times. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/48 "2010-03-25T21:19:04Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Frum was [just fired](http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/1601/groupthink-right-would-make-stalin-proud) from the conservative thinktank American Enterprise Institute today. Probably because of [this](http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo). > > Or perhaps I should’ve put “resigned” (coughcough) in quotes… The problem is the (fairly) rational sane ones are getting primaried from the right. Frum is fired, Crist and McCain are primaried, Schwarzenegger (and Snowe and Collins) are deried as RINO. The reason Specter switched from R to D is because he wouldn’t survive the primary from the right by Toomey in 2010. I can understand using primaries to make your party more in tune with your values and move your parties ideology and overton window to the right or left. But the right seems to use primaries and threats on anyone who even cooperates with the dems instead of treating them like a foreign invader. They are using primaries on anyone who acts like a sane adult rather than a frothing end timer who thinks we were just invaded by the USSR. I’m all for primaries from the left for dems to make them more progressive, but I’m not going to help primary anyone as punishment for cooperating or being sane. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/49 "2010-03-25T21:31:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cantor was attacking Dems for “politicing” the violence. He actually said it was “dangerous” for the Dems to complain that people are throwing rocks through their windows and threatening to muder their chikdren. I will laugh like a banshee if white supremacist revolutionaries that he indirectly helped encourage end up mudering Cantor’s Jewish chikdren. As to the OP, I grew up in the GOP, & left when I realized that the ostensible “party of grown-ups” was full of fools who would follow a Dear Leader off a cliff because his name was familiar. I think the smarter conservatives (that aren’t cynically playing at being Father Coughlin) are now considered “moderates” (though many “moderates” are also stupid) & many are Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/50 "2010-03-25T21:33:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s constantly on the Sunday talk shows as the face of the Republican Party. Not many Senators "control many votes’, so unless you limit yourself to the 3 or 4 official leaders in Congress, you’re going to have to go to the senior members in Congress, especially in the Senate. Some Senators seem to be in the position to cut deals and negotiate with the leaders of the other party, despite not being part of the Congressional leadership. I’d say they qualify as party leaders despite not holding a formal position. For the last two years, Graham seems to be constantly _trying_ to do this, proposing deals on Climate Change and Gitmo, but despite the fact that Obama and Reid seem open to his compromises, his efforts don’t seem to be going anywhere since he doesn’t actually bring any of his party members votes along. As far as being on talkshows, he doesn’t seem to do much more the tow the party line, and in places where he breaks with his party, he doesn’t seem to be doing much to bring GOP opinion with him. Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t think it qualifies him as much of a Republican leader, which is what I understand the OP to be thinking of. Pity about Frum. The AEI can of course fire/hire whomever they want, but it seems kinda stupid for Conservatives to put money into think-tanks if they just want them to be echo-chambers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/51 "2010-03-25T21:38:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > RL intrudes, sadly, but I didn’t want you to think I was running off without responding. I think there are two sides to this issue, and it depends on ones perspective as to whether or not the Dems made a good faith effort to include the Republicans in their plans or rammed it down there throats. Had they not used the methods they did to ultimately get this passed then I think the Dems would be in a stronger position. That said, I freely concede that the Republicans were idiots on this, that they proposed no alternatives and were obstructionist from the get go. David Frum seems to agree with you and summed up a lot of this well I think: > [@](#): > > This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none. > > Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994. > > Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law. > > \ > > I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds. > > SOURCE: [http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo](http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/52 "2010-03-25T21:58:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > David Frum seems to agree with you and summed up a lot of this well I think: Too bad that Frum spoke out against the leader of the Rebublicans - Rush. Frum is now [punted from the American Enterprise Institute](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/25/david-frum-aei-split-cons_n_513544.html) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/53 "2010-03-25T22:00:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The most sane and intellectual leadership in the GOP right now probably comes from the relatively moderate conservative columnists (print only), such as David Frum and David Brooks. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/54 "2010-03-25T22:05:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > RL intrudes, sadly, but I didn’t want you to think I was running off without responding. I think there are two sides to this issue, and it depends on ones perspective as to whether or not the Dems made a good faith effort to include the Republicans in their plans or rammed it down there throats. “Make a good faith effort”? They sucked up shamelessly to the Republicans, to the point of alienating the public (most of whom wanted the public option, for example) and, especially, their own base. What more were the Democrats supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/55 "2010-03-25T22:07:13Z")
Back to the OP’s question: > **[Hulking Strongman Now Only Voice Of Reason In Republican Party](https://www.theonion.com/hulking-strongman-now-only-voice-of-reason-in-republica-1819589763)** > > The Onion brings you all of the latest news, stories, photos, videos and more from America's finest news source. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/56 "2010-03-25T22:07:34Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Agreed. Sorry - Frum’s been thrown under the bus, so he’s off the list of Sane GOP leaders. See post above. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/57 "2010-03-25T22:14:35Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Just like in the 60s, the extreme hippy/anti-government fringe alienated the middle, and so the Tea Baggers will do the same. Middle America doesn’t like extremism, at least not in any sustained capacity. This is not how I remember it. The most visible “hippy, anti-government” viewpoint was against the Viet Nam war, and that gradually became the mainstream view. Also, many of the progressive policies espoused by those groups became much more generally accepted, as they kept getting repeated without much challenge. All the unrebutted signs in these protests, like “I want my country back” (back from what, one wonders) and the ones equating health care reform with fascism and communism (at the same time) will, I believe, have some effect on the muddled middle. How much and for how long is of course open for debate. I think that you are right, though, that if the economy improves noticeably in the next six months, the Democrats won’t lose too badly; if it does not, or if it gets even a little bit worse, all bets are off. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/58 "2010-03-26T01:04:37Z")
I’m a registered Republican, but my general approach to politics is to vote for whoever will do the least amount of damage. If I had a bumper sticker, it would say, “Vote for (Insert Candidate Name Here). He’s the lesser of two evils.” As far as I’m concerned, the Republicans in Congress have been intellectual cyphers since Gingrich stepped down. At least he had a coherent set of ideas. Frankly, at this point, I’m even missing Clinton. In terms of who is in Congress now, I think Lamar Alexander is inoffensive and among governors and and ex-governors, I wouldn’t be too bothered if Jeb Bush was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/59 "2010-03-26T01:07:03Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I will laugh like a banshee if white supremacist revolutionaries that he indirectly helped encourage end up mudering Cantor’s Jewish chikdren. :dubious: I must be missing something here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768/60 "2010-03-26T01:32:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Speaking of which, one of the health care maniacs fired a bullet into the office of … Eric Cantor.](http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/congress.threats/index.html?hpt=T2) That’s right: he opposed this thing bitterly the whole way, and someone fired a warning shot into his office because he couldn’t stop it. Or…someone on the left fired a shot because he’s tired of the Reps fighting against it tooth and nail. Which, to me , seems more likely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-currently-any-sane-intellectual-leadership-in-the-republican-party-if-so-who/533768.md?page=4)