# Is there deep Christian rock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011 "2011-11-15T16:01:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/21 "2011-11-15T21:43:49Z")
The ska-punk band Five Iron Frenzy (1995-2003) were an unabashedly Christian band, but were also somewhat infamous among the Christian music community for their challenging lyrics. The band’s general political point of view was downright leftist (with numerous songs about the evils of capitalism and the hypocrisy of the modern Christian church), especially compared to their peers. They also had a number of songs criticizing the destruction of Native American culture by Christian white men. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/22 "2011-11-15T21:45:22Z")
I’m not a Christian rock fan (most of what I’ve heard has been terrible IMO) but back in the 80s I got turned on to Steve Taylor by my spouse (way back before we were married). I still listen to his stuff even though I’ve pretty much moved away from Christianity. Most of it is smart, sarcastic, and pretty darn good in an 80s new-wave sort of way. Alice Cooper (yes, he’s a Christian) has some really good, deep stuff that doesn’t really even sound like it has a Christian message until you really listen to it (_Brutal Planet_, IMO, is one of his best albums, and \*Dragontown \*and \*The Last Temptation \*are both quite good too). And nobody can say Alice doesn’t rock! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/23 "2011-11-15T21:58:05Z")
A lot of Steve Taylor’s stuff seems kind of dated and tame today, but at the time he was known for sticking a sharp stick in the eye of Evangelical culture. 🙂 His (I think last) CD _Squint_ was very underrated. Also his short-lived rock band [Chagall Guevara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagall_Guevara) (with Dave Perkins and Lynn Nichols) was truly ahead of its time. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/24 "2011-11-15T22:14:37Z")
**Anberlin** (not Amberlin) has some good, deep lyrics. Maybe some debate over whether they’re a Christian band or Christians in a band - they are probably on the latter side of the spectrum. **Five Iron Frenzy** is a good pick. While yes, they have some silly stuff, they get deep and meaningful at times. Their live recording of their last concert, called The End Is Here, is very moving at times. And yes, they are certainly leftist by American Christian standards. They have a song about overcoming prejudice towards gay people through Freddie Mercury’s music, even. **Relient K** ’s later stuff gets deep and reflective (from Five Score onward; their early stuff is pretty cheesy pop-punk). [Deathbed](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhf-BO_2wGw) is a first-person perspective of a deathbed confession and it can certainly be powerful and challenging. While **Jars of Clay** has sort of been all over the place in their lifetime, from radio-friendly CCR to bluegrass to R&B to folk to harder rock, I like where they have settled. Their past two albums have been mainly focused on how their lives have been affected by faith. ---
**Author:** ![DfrntBreign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DfrntBreign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DfrntBreign)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/25 "2011-11-15T22:33:45Z")
I don’t know if this is what you have in mind…but I’m going to suggest it anyway: [Transatlantic - The Whirlwind](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kTentrFO7Q). While not exactly mainstream, it’s no overtly Christian, either (although my SIL disagrees). If you like this, you might look into other works by Neal Morse. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/26 "2011-11-15T22:47:25Z")
I like the late Mark Heard. I also like Bill Malonee and the Vigilantes of Love. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/27 "2011-11-15T22:49:23Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > I like the late Mark Heard. I also like Bill Malonee and the Vigilantes of Love. Excellent choices! I’ve seen VoL in several smoke-filled dives when I actually had a night life. ETA: I was also at Cornerstone for Mark Heard’s last concert. He had a heart attack right after the show and died a few weeks later. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/28 "2011-11-15T23:30:03Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > There is quite a bit. Saviour Machine, who are a (more or less defunct) band has quite a few songs like that, at least ones that deal with problems. They aren’t amazing all the time, but pretty decent. Hurray Saviour Machine. 😃 Honestly, mainstream music in general often isn’t going to be particularly deep because it has to appeal to a wide variety. However, there is quite a bit of Christian music out there that covers some very powerful subjects. Believe it or not, there’s a pretty decent number of underground Christian metal bands and they will cover a lot of the sorts of topics you might expect from a metal band, but it’s filtered through Christian values and beliefs. One of the main themes seems that particularly speaks to me are dealing with things like hardships, depression, loss and all that, but rather than simply focusing on expressing those feelings, they turn around and fill it with God. One of my favorites is a band called Extol who have a lot of influence from traditional death metal and thrash as well as progressive rock and metal. One of my favorites would be Undeceived which tells the story of someone falling into a life of sin and sorrow but ultimately God can remove that and accepts her warmly. Reflections of a Broken Soul doesn’t have so much of an ending but simply goes on about how ultimately empty searching for love and joy through Earthly means is. Or my absolute favorite by them Grace for Succession goes on about mankind’s decline and the amazing chorus, I can’t tell you how moving it was live, tying it to Jesus’s sacrifice. Another band I love is Antestor who has a fairly traditional Black Metal sound. In fact, they would tour with some pretty hardcore Black Metal bands and use it to witness to a generally pretty hostile crowd. They would tend to focus on even darker topics. For instance, one song called Depression is, pretty obviously, about depression and doesn’t have the uplifting ending, simply a call to God to save him (it’s a concept album and not really answered until the last song). One of their albums has a lot of historical exploration about Christianity, particularly through events like the crusades and warfare in general. One of my favorites off of their last album is called Rites of Death and explores the dire consequences of man trying to play God. My absolute favorite by them though is a very dark interpretation of Psalm 51 which first expresses the verse initially as a cry out to God and then as the music changes and they repeat the lyrics, its like he answers it. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/29 "2011-11-16T04:08:35Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > … While **Jars of Clay** has sort of been all over the place in their lifetime, from radio-friendly CCR to bluegrass to R&B to folk to harder rock, I like where they have settled. Their past two albums have been mainly focused on how their lives have been affected by faith. Thanks much for this thread – I gave up on Christian music a long time ago. The last band where I really liked the music apart form the worldview was early [Jars](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su42dX0JO_M) [of](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBD7VJzttk) [Clay](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCclrQ1pOAo). You got me to check out [their more recent stuff](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0041GDsqE). Not bad. I still listen to those “secret” (or rather more complex) Christian bands, like U2… And I almost forgot to mention Bruce Cockburn! The guy’s quite the [neo-folkie](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL4CdHd9ma4), [guitarist](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02J_kPincA&feature=related) and [songwriter](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAcqr3MYMmM)… and [a lot of fun](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXlmxRQKU4) in concert-- the opposite of “easy answers” faith. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/30 "2011-11-16T04:51:22Z")
The Newsboys had some interesting stuff on their “Take Me To Your Leader” album, though IIRC most of the lyrics on that disc were written by Steve Taylor. I particularly liked the song “Lost the Plot” from that disc, a song that deals with Christian apathy: “When You come back again Could you bring me something from the fridge? Heard a rumor that the end is near But I just got comfortable here…” Barlow Girl has some pretty good stuff. “Never Alone” deals with the fact that even devout Christians can sometimes feel like God isn’t there: "I waited for you today But you didn’t show No no no I needed You today So where did You go? You told me to call Said You’d be there And though I haven’t seen You Are You still there? [Chorus:] I cried out with no reply And I can’t feel You by my side So I’ll hold tight to what I know You’re here and I’m never alone" while “Grey” deals with compromise: "Grey’s my favorite color Black and white has never been my thing I’ll take my drink lukewarm now Hot and cold is not the thing for me Absolutes are hidden I’ve buried my convictions" ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/31 "2011-11-16T06:55:35Z")
Nick Cave essentially had “Old Testament” and “New Testament” phases to his career. In his album _The Secret Life Of The Love Song & The Flesh Made Word: Two Lectures_ he discusses the influence of religion on his writing and performance. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/32 "2011-11-16T14:13:45Z")
This thread isn’t complete without mentioning… **Daniel Amos** , a band influential enough to have its own [page at TvTropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/DanielAmos?from=Main.DanielAmos). (Sample track: [Darn Floor Big Bite](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MkputBpaq0), which compares a human’s attempt to describe God to a sign-language-using gorilla’s attempt to describe an earthquake.) Their offshoot/side project the **Swirling Eddies** , a bit goofier but also with a dark side. ([The Twist](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRufIBpJAkM): most haunting song ever written about the crucifixion?) The great band **The 77s** (sample track [Woody](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKK3bjamSxE), which just rocks) **The Choir** (sample track [Speckled Bird](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvv9zHXFu94)) **Adam Again** (whom **Skammer** mentioned and whom I linked to in Post #2) And the rock/roots/Americana/folk/country supergroup formed by the immensely talented frontmen of the abovementioned bands, the **[Lost Dogs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aiH5EGZ6I4)** **Michael Knott** , as a solo artist or the leader of bands like Lifesavers Underground and Aunt Bettys, can be very dark and edgy. (He has a song called [Jesus](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi3O7CnTe0Q) that would never in a million years get played on Christian radio, though his [Christ Saves](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDngo1DXLc) might squeak by.) And I second [Mark Heard](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6PimLoVh5U). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/33 "2011-11-16T16:44:08Z")
**Thudlow Boink** , are you 1992 me? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/34 "2011-11-16T18:49:54Z")
I’ve noticed in the past several years, even on pop Christian radio (K-LOVE), more “When the miracle doesn’t happen…” songs- but right now, the ones that comes to mind are ‘Held’ by Natalie Grant- [Held by Natalie Grant - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2m1HZekCcc) and “Praise You in the Storm” by Casting Crowns [Casting Crowns Praise You In The Storm - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHdcyue0bSw&feature=related) Casting Crowns’ “Does Anybody Hear Her?” [Casting Crowns - Does Anybody Hear Her - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhOJW4Uwy3c&feature=related) and Tenth Avenue North’s “You Are More” [Tenth Avenue North - You Are More - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwtcwQwgdsA&ob=av2e) are relatively profound songs about Divine Grace & human failure. Actually tho, I tend to listen to the SDA LifeTalk station or Moody Radio for non-pop deeper Christian music. ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/35 "2011-11-16T20:54:04Z")
[Plumb](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAuNL_ucx7M) and [Flyleaf](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIADZKU9dw) spring immediately to my mind. There’s a pretty solid Christian metalcore movement as well; [As I Lay Dying](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSj0hMtmNs) is one of the most prominent, though you have to actually look up the lyrics to determine if they’re deep enough for you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/36 "2011-11-16T21:41:11Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I remain skeptical. Is there any mainstream christian rock that tackles controversial or challenging subjects, or is it all just the “Yay Jesus” stuff I’ve heard so much? > > eta: And yes, upon specific recommendations I’ll try listening to some of the stuff. Although not at all mainstream, I can recommend a couple of excellent (very) hard rock Christian bands. Although they have since moved on to a more pop-emo kind of sound, the first 2 albums by **Stavesacre** were very hard rock with a tilt towards prog-rock. And yes, their lyrics are fairly deep, or at least not at all bland pop lyrics. Click the lyrics to see youtube video. [ > [@Wither/Ascend by Stavesacre](#): > > the pain will come > with the morning sun > will the night betray the day > blistered skin > withered from within > scratch to shed this shell away > will you know my name > or will i hang my head in shame > will someone take this tired skin > that i’ve been dying in > will someone hold me to the light > and if I die tonight > then take this broken man > and wrap me tight within > this brand new skin ]([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzCD4NuqJzo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzCD4NuqJzo)) That’s a song called _Wither/Ascend_ from their 2nd album, _Absolutes_. Here’s another but from their first album, _Friction_; check out [Threshold. > [@Threshold by Stavesacre](#): > > “…a song took from our souls > a home that is our own > we’re all born remembering > but few of us will know” > the tip of your tongue > a memory in mind > just outside of you… > will you wake to find > the rest you so clearly seek > or painfully realize that it’s lost > forever? > suffer. ]([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBusZtgK-Y0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBusZtgK-Y0)) Another great Christian band is doom metal trio **Place Of Skulls**. I don’t think their lyrics are quite as deep, since they mostly seem to be picked right out of Bible verses, but they have a terrific sound. Their latest album, _As A Dog Returns_ is full of rifftastic tunes. Here’s album opener [The Maker](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvvdxL1Uh0E) and [Timeless Hearts > [@Timeless Hearts by Place Of Skulls](#): > > Into the sunrise where time heals wounds > Where it’s never too late and never too soon > Through all of our tears of sadness and distress > Our dream still lives in a heart that’s timeless ]([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VgI6pjLpvI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VgI6pjLpvI)) I know I have some more Christian rock in my collection, but since you asked about mainstream rock, I won’t bother linking songs from bands like **Zao** or **Shai Hulud**. I’ll see what else I can find tho. ---
**Author:** ![baronsabato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@baronsabato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baronsabato)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/37 "2011-11-16T23:17:32Z")
Despite being a Christian, I generally can’t stand all the happy clappy praise stuff that constitutes the majority of “mainstream” Christian rock, but there are definitely a few bands that I think are pretty awesome (and rank up there with some of my favorite “secular” artists). Check out The Cobalt Season- their song “Like Jesus” is pretty awesome, as is “I, Obstruction”. Derek Webb’s pretty damn good too, if you’re okay with his Calvinist theology, but his stuff is pretty introspective and politically more liberal (even though I think he’s something of a Ron Paul Republican). I like “What Matters More” a lot, especially with its “controversial” pro-gay message. Neither The Cobalt Season nor Derek Webb are really “rock”, but more contemporary folk-rock, but I think they’re great, and work well for someone who’s looking for a deeper musical expression of Christian faith. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/38 "2011-11-17T17:00:33Z")
Wow. I grew up listening to Christian rock in the 90s, and this thread is really bringing back some memories! > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > The Newsboys had some interesting stuff on their “Take Me To Your Leader” album, though IIRC most of the lyrics on that disc were written by Steve Taylor. " I was going to say Newsboys. Somehow they manage to be funny and painful all at once. The one I recall best is ‘‘Let it Go,’’ which is about how hard it can really be to turn the other cheek. You are waiting on a beach This is where the east meets west And as another sun sets on your anger The darkness laughs, as the wound destroys And it turns your prayers to noise Then there’s ‘‘elle.g.’’ a [haunting song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mERhGFdwJE) where the author tries to come to terms with the suicide of a recently saved friend. It’s really heartbreaking. Maybe this world is a barren place for a soul Prone to get lost But heaven still hounds from the smallest sounds To the cries of the storm-tossed Week nine: I am writing in the sand Any little clue that could help me understand Every whispered secret, every muffled sigh Every half-truth that was added to a lie Jars of Clay is also awesome sauce. ‘‘Fade to Grey’’ is probably one of my favorites from ‘‘Much Afraid.’’ I saw them live when I was about thirteen, and they were freakin’ outstanding. It was a really informal Woodstock-like setting. I still have a vivid memory of them rehearsing ‘‘Faith Like a Child’’ a capella before the show. Incredible talent. But my all-time favorite Jars of Clay song is ‘‘[World’s Apart](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCezEbaMHdA).’’ If you can only get one Jars of Clay album, get their first one. It’s mind-blowingly good. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/39 "2011-11-17T18:09:32Z")
Almost 40 posts and no mention of [Larry Norman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Norman) or [Randy Stonehill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Stonehill)? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011/40 "2011-11-17T18:21:06Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Hurray Saviour Machine. 😃 I actually outgrew them long ago, but I do have some fond memories of them from when they were still around. Eric Clayton still posts at their message boards, but they basically do not exist anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-deep-christian-rock/603011.md?page=3)