# is there huge salary and cost of living difference between UK metropolitan areas and elsewhere? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 11, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006 "2011-04-11T20:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/21 "2011-04-12T20:30:14Z")
**kenobi 65** , I asked because I was very surprised to find out that prices over there are much higher than in America. So, I figured, if prices are real high in one place, maybe sanity prevails in some other places, all the more so given that England reputedly is not all that rich a country, with unemployment, budget shortfalls, huge welfare state etc. Well, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/22 "2011-04-12T20:58:32Z")
The U.K.'s unemployment rate is apparently actually lower than that in the U.S.: U.K.: [8.0%](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-rate.aspx?Symbol=gbp) (as of February) U.S.: [8.8%](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-Rate.aspx?Symbol=USD) (as of March) (though, it’s possible that the two countries’ governments measure unemployment differently, so it may not be an apples-to-apples comparison) As far as higher prices, I’m just guessing, but if that’s true, it may be that the VAT in the U.K. (which is usually pre-calculated, and factored into the shelf price of goods) may be part of that (whereas, in the U.S., state and local sales taxes don’t show up in shelf prices of many retail goods). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/23 "2011-04-12T21:08:41Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > **kenobi 65** , I asked because I was very surprised to find out that prices over there are much higher than in America. So, I figured, if prices are real high in one place, maybe sanity prevails in some other places, all the more so given that England reputedly is not all that rich a country, with unemployment, budget shortfalls, huge welfare state etc. Well, maybe not. I’m not really sure where you got the idea that England isn’t rich. People complain, but they always do - it’s still one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Some things are cheaper than the US, btw; property is more expensive for the simple reason that there’s less room. Petrol is higher because it’s taxed heavily. Which prices were you thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/24 "2011-04-12T21:14:40Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > **kenobi 65** , I asked because I was very surprised to find out that prices over there are much higher than in America. So, I figured, if prices are real high in one place, maybe sanity prevails in some other places, all the more so given that England reputedly is not all that rich a country, with unemployment, budget shortfalls, huge welfare state etc. Well, maybe not. Things have seemed shockingly expensive to me in the UK last few times, albeit much of that has been (a) exchange rate; and (b) London hotels are notoriously (among my set, anyhow) expensive to get anything modern (i.e., you can readily pay 80+ pounds for a “three star” hotel that consists of a bunch of adjacent Victorian houses knocked together (not too skillfully) into somewhat shabby hotels with crooked floors/halls – yes, I’m thinking Bayswater and the like). But also we’ve always found that “stuff” was expensive across the U.K. The ex-GF picked up on this more than I did b/c she was a shopper, I’m not, but she’d point out to me that, say, a CD, or a pair of jeans, was priced in many cases **at least** as much in pounds as the identical item would be priced in (much less valuable, these days) American dollars. I knew plenty of Brits who found it a wash or better to buy a cheap ticket to Orlando, buy a few empty cheap suitcases, hit the outlet malls, and fly back with their clothes and “stuff” for the year (and . . . anecdotally jetting to places like Florida, Spain, Canaries, etc. is almost a de rigeur part of the cost of living for many Brits who seem to absolutely crave sunny vacations). ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/25 "2011-04-12T21:17:49Z")
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**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/26 "2011-04-12T21:20:35Z")
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**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/27 "2011-04-12T21:40:15Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > In addition to these comparisons between large conurbations, there are also differances between urban areas and rural areas, in general urban areas tend to be cheaper to live than rural ones, and the more remote areas such as the Scottish Islands are xpensive places to live, however housing costs are often cheaper. > > There are some exceptions, some rural areas are incredibly expensive, much more so than others, the Cotswolds is on case in point, it is full of second homes owned by London based workers. While I agree to a point, I lived in the Cotswolds a couple of years ago, and it was considerably cheaper than London or even Oxford. Even the rent wasn’t too bad - I rented a very nice 18th century 2 bed, 2 bath (one ensuite) duplex flat for £750 pcm. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/28 "2011-04-12T21:42:13Z")
Pcm? Per centimeter? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/29 "2011-04-12T21:46:40Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Pcm? Per centimeter? Per calendar month, I’d guess more likely . . . ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/30 "2011-04-12T21:49:21Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > … > But also we’ve always found that “stuff” was expensive across the U.K. The ex-GF picked up on this more than I did b/c she was a shopper, I’m not, but she’d point out to me that, say, a CD, or a pair of jeans, was priced in many cases **at least** as much in pounds as the identical item would be priced in (much less valuable, these days) American dollars. I knew plenty of Brits who found it a wash or better to buy a cheap ticket to Orlando, buy a few empty cheap suitcases, hit the outlet malls, and fly back with their clothes and “stuff” for the year (and . . . anecdotally jetting to places like Florida, Spain, Canaries, etc. is almost a de rigeur part of the cost of living for many Brits who seem to absolutely crave sunny vacations). maybe that’s not directly relevant to OP, but let’s discuss this fascinating point, shall we? Can somebody please explain why an individual Brit can import a suitcase full of stuff from across the Atlantic without trouble, but he is unable to buy the same stuff from a foreign mail-order company for a similar price? Is this a matter of the individual avoiding some draconian import tax that the mail order business would pay on the package? Or is it a matter of UK Post Office charging draconian rates and prohibiting private competition? Or just what is the matter? Come on guys, my faith in the law of price efficiency in a free market economy is at stake. Help out the doubting brother here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/31 "2011-04-12T21:57:44Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > Can somebody please explain why an individual Brit can import a suitcase full of stuff from across the Atlantic without trouble, but he is unable to buy the same stuff from a foreign mail-order company for a similar price? Is this a matter of the individual avoiding some draconian import tax that the mail order business would pay on the package? Or is it a matter of UK Post Office charging draconian rates and prohibiting private competition? Or just what is the matter? I suspect all that’s the matter is very inefficient/difficult enforcement of/compliance with the customs laws. If the U.K.'s like the U.S., you’re allowed to bring $X (a few hundred) worth of merchandise back duty free (to encourage some degree of free trade, convenience). My assumption’s always been that people who go on those shopping orgies take the labels off, don’t report the full value of what they’ve bought, and sail right through customs, b/c after all how often does customs open a bag, let alone how would they determine that the Nike Airs weren’t ones you’d bought in the high street in the U.K. the week before you left on your junket? I assume that’s how it plays out. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/32 "2011-04-12T21:58:59Z")
I’ve never heard of any Briton flying to Orlando to shop. For a start, that sounds like a customs nightmare waiting to happen. Taking the ferry to France for cheap alcohol at Calais, yes. Flying to Orlando and bringing back suitcases of goods? No. I’d be interested in how many people **Huerta88** knew who did this, and what their circumstances were. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/33 "2011-04-12T22:01:13Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Per calendar month, I’d guess more likely . . . This. > [@code\_grey](#): > > Can somebody please explain why an individual Brit can import a suitcase full of stuff from across the Atlantic without trouble, but he is unable to buy the same stuff from a foreign mail-order company for a similar price? Is this a matter of the individual avoiding some draconian import tax that the mail order business would pay on the package? Or is it a matter of UK Post Office charging draconian rates and prohibiting private competition? Or just what is the matter? Officially, we’re not allowed to bring any new goods into the country from outside the EU worth more than some insanely low amount, like £30. In practice, Customs have enough to worry about than stop people who’ve just bought an X Box in NYC. Via the mail, there is some other branch of Customs involved who are a bunch of wankes. That said, I’ve bought lots of expensive electronics from Hong Kong with no worries, so maybe some countries are more paranoid/more targeted than others when shipping overseas. It’s not really to do with the Post Office though. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/34 "2011-04-12T22:05:02Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I’ve never heard of any Briton flying to Orlando to shop. For a start, that sounds like a customs nightmare waiting to happen. Taking the ferry to France for cheap alcohol at Calais, yes. Flying to Orlando and bringing back suitcases of goods? No. I’d be interested in how many people **Huerta88** knew who did this, and what their circumstances were. Let’s see. When ex-GF’s mom worked over there, knew at least three couples/families who did this (to be fair, two of them also wanted to go to Disney/the beach). As noted above, it would be a customs nightmare if one were compliant. I took it as a given that none of these folks had any plans to be, and unless someone was bringing back ten Wiis for resale, as opposed to some folded up designer clothes and out-of-box electronics that they could plausibly claim to have brought along to begin with, I think there IRL risk of capture was very low (IMLE, being caught fudging customs doesn’t, unless it looks like you are smuggling in quantity for resale, result in anything other than having to pay the extra duty and/or confiscation for stuff like Cuban cigars coming into the U.S.). Maybe this particular circle of Brits were unusually elastic in their views of the customs laws (god knows they were all scroungers when word got out that GF’s mom had a daughter with an extra bedroom in the U.S., every one of them eventually took up the offer of free lodging). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/35 "2011-04-12T22:20:33Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Let’s see. When ex-GF’s mom worked over there, knew at least three couples/families who did this (to be fair, two of them also wanted to go to Disney/the beach). > > As noted above, it would be a customs nightmare if one were compliant. I took it as a given that none of these folks had any plans to be, and unless someone was bringing back ten Wiis for resale, as opposed to some folded up designer clothes and out-of-box electronics that they could plausibly claim to have brought along to begin with, I think there IRL risk of capture was very low (IMLE, being caught fudging customs doesn’t, unless it looks like you are smuggling in quantity for resale, result in anything other than having to pay the extra duty and/or confiscation for stuff like Cuban cigars coming into the U.S.). Maybe this particular circle of Brits were unusually elastic in their views of the customs laws (god knows they were all scroungers when word got out that GF’s mom had a daughter with an extra bedroom in the U.S., every one of them eventually took up the offer of free lodging). Just preserving this drivel ---
**Author:** ![BDoors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BDoors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDoors)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/36 "2011-04-12T22:22:23Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Maybe this particular circle of Brits were unusually elastic in their views of the customs laws (god knows they were all scroungers when word got out that GF’s mom had a daughter with an extra bedroom in the U.S., every one of them eventually took up the offer of free lodging). They do sound like a bunch of Chavs, let’s be honest. But seriously, the idea that you can make out like bandits by flying to Florida to buy stonewashed jeans and other tat just makes no economic sense. I suspect people just come up with stories like that to justify to you and themselves the significant amount of money they are paying for their week in Orlando. I doubt that UK Customs gives a fuck what they bring back home. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/37 "2011-04-12T22:32:27Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > **kenobi 65** , I asked because I was very surprised to find out that prices over there are much higher than in America. So, I figured, if prices are real high in one place, maybe sanity prevails in some other places, all the more so given that England reputedly is not all that rich a country, with unemployment, budget shortfalls, huge welfare state etc. Well, maybe not. Oy! That’s “the United Kingdom”, not “England”. As for “not all that rich a country”, you should consider the following two points about your suggested criteria: (1) the United States is without question the world’s richest nation, yet has a large budget shortfall; and (2) a “huge welfare state” isn’t an indication of poverty - where do you think the money comes from to pay for it? Measured by GDP, the UK has the sixth largest economy in the world. Anyway, a significant reason why prices are so high over here is that we’re a **very** densely populated island; this is particularly so in the south-east of England. The result is that land prices are high, which in turn has a huge knock-on effect on prices for food, raw materials, and also of course manufactured goods. (According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density), the population density of the UK is 660 people per sq. mile, compared with 83 people per square mile for the US!) ETA: I think I might’ve come a bit late to the party… nevermind! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/38 "2011-04-12T22:43:12Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > This.Officially, we’re not allowed to bring any new goods into the country from outside the EU worth more than some insanely low amount, like £30. In practice, Customs have enough to worry about than stop people who’ve just bought an X Box in NYC. Via the mail, there is some other branch of Customs involved who are a bunch of wankes. That said, I’ve bought lots of expensive electronics from Hong Kong with no worries, so maybe some countries are more paranoid/more targeted than others when shipping overseas. It’s not really to do with the Post Office though. **jjimm** , Latvia is in the EU too. If I were to open a mail order company in Latvia and then send parcels to UK, let’s say to the friends of **Huerta88** , would the customs due paid on the contents plus the presumably low Latvian price plus cheap shipping by sea be approximately equal to the price that people pay in stores in the UK? Or am I incorrect in assuming that Latvian prices are similar to the “real” or, for simplicity, let’s say to the Chinese prices? Is the tariff wall around poor new entrants to the EU the same as it is around England, France and other rich countries? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/39 "2011-04-12T23:12:35Z")
> [@BDoors](#): > > They do sound like a bunch of Chavs, let’s be honest. > But seriously, the idea that you can make out like bandits by flying to Florida to buy stonewashed jeans and other tat just makes no economic sense. I suspect people just come up with stories like that to justify to you and themselves the significant amount of money they are paying for their week in Orlando. I doubt that UK Customs gives a fuck what they bring back home. Yeah - it’s a load of bollocks. Maybe this is what Heurtas was told, but it doesn’t add up. What I can believe is that the clothes in Orlando were very slightly cheaper, so the families bought some while they happened to be on holiday. Though what I found when clothes-shoppng in the US - in Florida to, actually, because it was much colder than I’d expected so I had to get more clothes - was that the cheap clothes were way more expensive than the UK, but a couple of brands like Levis were cheaper, and kids clothes cost more presumably because in the UK kids’ clothes aren’t taxed. US groceries were more expensive, some electronics were cheaper. Cellphone costs - for the calls etc rather than the phone - seem to be far, far cheaper in the UK. It’s only petrol and property that are significantly cheaper. Those are big expenses, obviously, but least there’s less need for people in the UK to drive as far in the UK (on average), and there’s not a lot you can do about house prices. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006/40 "2011-04-13T02:32:09Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Just preserving this drivel You understand how the board works? My post adequately preserves my post, thanks very much. You understand what forum this is? I’m pretty sure jackass words like “drivel” don’t qualify. I related stories told to me during a historic high-exchange period, as fact. There have certainly been weekends in the past four years when I could have taken a quick weekend to London for a $400 flight or FF miles and, had the prices/exchange rate run as favorably the other way, broken even. What’s your problem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-huge-salary-and-cost-of-living-difference-between-uk-metropolitan-areas-and-elsewhere/578006.md?page=3)