I think that’s probably always been true. I know of a certain gentleman of the early part of the last century who spent long afternoons sitting on his front porch near a trolley stop. His sole pupose was to catch glimpses of young ladies’ ankles now and then as they lifted their skirts to enter the trolley. Simple pleasures.
Feminism is the belief in the social and economic equality of the sexes. It’s a little difficult to go through life being indifferent to the subject. But have a nice life anyway.
That’s the central problem with the OP – the hajib and burqa are relatively minor parts of a pattern of repression that exists to varying extents in many Muslim societies. Focussing on them entirely totally misrepresents the feminist position. It’s almost like the wags in the 70s who seemed to think feminism in the US was all about burning bras.
So you would welcome the Saudis coming to your community and condemning (say) the warehousing of terminally ill people? Surely dying in your own home surrounded by your family is a human right.
How about people being force to raise their families in drug-ridden neighborhoods? Surely Saudi concerns about how America is abusing children like this would be something you would welcome, right?
Women forced into prostitution by poverty? Obviously a suppression of women. At least some Feminists would agree with the Saudis that this reduced women to the level of sex objects.
Let’s not forget America’s long history of racism. Certainly that would be an area of international concern.
Saudi Arabia is not my country, by the way. I only happen to live here. But you do have a good point, it is easier to criticize others than to accept criticism of others.
Are you actually questioning their right to do that? If Saudis want to condemn human rights abuses in the U.S. they can and should. Plenty of countries, NGO’s etc have criticized the U.S. on any number of problems. Unless they want to throw up some sort of iron curtain, no country gets to prevent anyone from scrutinizing and judging their human rights record.
Saudi Arabia has an extreme apartheid/segregation system. IMHO *Sorely * deserving of the type of sanctions imposed on South Africa. In a more perfect world, of course – I’m not under any delusion that many people are going to be seriously complaining about Saudi Arabia’s treatment of women in the near future. Plus I would tend to agree with the proposition that reforms are most effective when they come from the inside, and least effective when they appear to be imposed from without (and particularly from a superpower like the U.S. which tends to make people think of imperialism/colonialism, etc.)
I’m sorry I did actually know that, but your defensiveness about Saudi society reminded me of my own defensiveness about the U.S. and in making that point I forgot you weren’t Saudi. I have to say that your comments in this thread make it seem like you’re unaware there’s any oppression of women in Saudi Arabia at all.
Again from the state department’s report on human rights in Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia women:- can’t vote
can’t run for office
can’t drive. If they are driven it must be by a male relative or employee.
can’t travel without permission of a male relative
can’t speak to men in public that they aren’t related to
will probably be segregated in the workplace even if they are allowed to work (they make up only 5% of the workforce). Which means many have to communicate with colleagues/supervisors through phone or fax.
can’t speak on their own behalf in court.
are barred from studying certain subjects (including engineering and journalism and architecture)
have to sit in special sections on buses (doesn’t that sound familiar) and use entrances at the back of the bus
automatically lose custody of children over 9 during divorce and can be refused visitation thereafter.
will have their testimony counted as equal to half of a man’s in court.
receive half the compensation of a man in court settlements
receive half the inheritence as males
have been allowed to get identity cards since 2001 only but still require permission of a male relative to get them.
etc…
If this were a racial or ethnic group being treated this way - like virtual slaves in their own country - nobody would defend it as just a “cultural difference.” But when it comes to women, tell me, exactly how much oppression does “culture” excuse?
Anyway this has nothing to do with seeing one “culture” as the “best way.” If I pulled out that card every time somebody criticized what happened at Abu Ghraib you’d see it for the total non-sequitor that it is.
Reminds me of a time when I was teaching “The Lottery” to a college class; one young man spoke up and said we couldn’t condemn the annual stonings of villagers in the story because we didn’t have the “right” to judge their “culture.”
Scary, isn’t it?
Out of curiousity, would you feel that way if you were a woman? Also, if you have a wife or girlfriend, how does she feel about these restrictions? Frankly, I’m an intelligent, independent, free-spirited woman. I wouldn’t choose to live under these restrictions.
Were I an American woman, I might not have stayed as long here as I have. Were I a Saudi woman, I suppose I would be fairly happy with my lot, as I would know no better.
(But on the other hand, I do like the comment about The Lottery. It is hard to argue with that one!)
Certainly there is much that is wrong with every society. The local dress code is not number one on my hit parade. In fact I note we have pretty well given up on beating that particular dead horse.
It would be better we saved our criticism to more important things. Further, we must ask ourselves what is the best way of bringing the locals up to snuff. I would propose that doing what I am doing is a pretty good step.
Yes, absolutely, and they would be right to do so. It’s a horrible practice.
Certainly this is a major problem in our society, and one does not have to be a member of it to recognize it as such. If I were debating a Saudi on the issue, I doubt we’d agree on the best way to address the problem, considering the draconian nature of drug laws in Saudi Arabia, and my own libertarian-ish views on the subject. But I’d certainly welcome his views on the matter, even if I ultimatly disregarded them.
Pretty much the same as the drug question, I guess. Another serious social issue that could be better addressed, but I doubt I’d agree with a randomly picked Saudi on how to address it.
Absolutely. Let’s not forget the role that international concern played in the slavery debate in this country. It was at least in part because of foreign objections to the practice that the South couldn’t get significant foreign aid in the Civil War. Thank God other countries were willing to judge American race relations!
Judging other cultures is part of my cultural heritage. Stop oppressing my people!