# Is there literally something wrong with the South? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653 "2010-10-10T02:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/41 "2010-10-10T19:29:58Z")
> [@Gil-Martin](#): > > Oh yeah, and the mosquitoes. They’re pretty bad where I live, here between the rice field and the swamp. But I think my favorite northern state, Minnesota, has them worse. FWIW, in the mountains where I am there are essentially NO mosquitoes. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/42 "2010-10-10T19:34:16Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Traffic fatalities, worse 10: > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 Thinking about this one some more. Poor medical response, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/43 "2010-10-10T19:39:05Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Traffic fatalities, worse 10: > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 I’ve never seen stats showing Southerners drink even more than Americans of other regions, but it wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/44 "2010-10-10T19:39:54Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Traffic fatalities, worse 10: > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 Does Louisiana still have the drive-through daiquiri stands? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/45 "2010-10-10T19:43:35Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > > > What is NOT excluded by your constraints? > > That is a funny question to be asked by a guy named **Evil Captor** , you know that? But my point still stands: your constraints eliminate virtually all reasonable answers. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/46 "2010-10-10T19:58:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@Spoke](#): > > > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 > > I’ve never seen stats showing Southerners drink even more than Americans of other regions, but it wouldn’t surprise me. It’s the [other way around](http://www.adolescent-substance-abuse.com/state-stats.html)apparently: > [@](#): > > Alcohol Use > > The State with the highest rate of past month use of alcohol among youths aged 12 to 17 was North Dakota (24.7 percent). The State with the lowest rate was Utah (10.3 percent). Most of the States in the highest ranked group were northern, while most of the States in the lowest ranked group were southern. Nine of the States in the highest ranked group for past month binge use of alcohol for youths were also in the highest group for past month use of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/47 "2010-10-10T20:06:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve never seen stats showing Southerners drink even more than Americans of other regions, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Per capita alcohol consumption is highest (more than 2.5 gallons of ethanol) in these states: Alaska Colorado Delaware Florida Hawaii Idaho Louisiana Massachusetts Montana Nevada New Hampshire North Dakota Oregon Rhode Island Vermont Wisconsin Wyoming By contrast, the _lowest_ alcohol consumption (under 2 gallons) is in these states: Alabama Arkansas Kansas Kentucky New York North Carolina Oklahoma Tennessee Utah West Virginia Also, Wisconsin and Rhode Island have the highest percentage of “[heavy drinkers](http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea_alc_con_hea_dri-health-alcohol-consumption-heavy-drinkers#definition),” Tennessee and West Virginia tied with Utah for the lowest. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/48 "2010-10-10T20:45:49Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Traffic fatalities, worse 10: > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 The answer is more simple than you think. Traffic deaths are mostly a function the number of high-speed rural (non-interstate) roads. It is easier to kill yourself going 80 mph in the middle of nowhere in Montana than it is in Manhattan or Boston. Rural roads that allow high speeds are dangerous especially if people aren’t familiar with them. They aren’t well lit and have sudden curves than can send you straight into the woods or a lake if you don’t know it is there especially at night and in bad weather. Most rural areas have roads with places called a “dead man’s curve” because that is what it creates over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/49 "2010-10-10T20:51:25Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@Shagnasty](#): > > > > The biggest natural gas strike in U.S. history and maybe the world is happening right now in Northwestern Louisiana producing millionaires by the truckload. > > Wow. That sounds familiar but I can’t name it. Shale, right? Got a linky? Its called the Haynesville Shale. There are a bunch of links out there if you are interested. Wikipedia has an article on it and there are Youtube videos as well that you can just google. There is also a limited release movie and web sites set up by the gas companies and mineral rights owners. Google any combination of those to find out more. They are drilling thousands of wells now to see what they get but it is going to be a tremendous amount of natural gas no matter what and the wells are really deep at about 12,000 feet or so. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/50 "2010-10-10T20:55:09Z")
But it’s not drinking that causes motor vehicle fatalities, it’s drunk driving, and the south does pretty well on that list. You can check it out at [http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html](http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html). Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and South Carolina are five out of the top seven states for alcohol related automobile deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/51 "2010-10-10T21:06:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve never seen stats showing Southerners drink even more than Americans of other regions, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I think it would be interesting to see those stats rendered by number of dry counties. Here in Bourbon country, [46 of 120 (pdf)](http://www.abc.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/CD61AB96-C190-431C-A681-B92BAC935D8B/0/Wetdrylist012009.pdf) counties are dry, with another 19 moist (a wet city in a dry county). In Tennessee, the Jack Daniels distillery is in a county that can never become wet because of the requirements needed to make it wet. As far as alcohol consumption goes, there can be large regional differences within a state due to moral beliefs, wine/beer/distillery industry activity and life in a metropolitan area. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/52 "2010-10-10T21:11:54Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Traffic fatalities, worse 10: > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Montana > > > Louisiana > > > West Virginia > > > South Carolina > > > Mississippi > > > Arkansas > > > Alabama > > > Kentucky > > > Tennessee > > > Arizona > > Now that one intrigues me. I wonder what accounts for that? It’s not poor roads. The roads here are as good or better than elsewhere in the country. 😕 That list does seem counter-intuitive. I’d expect to see more traffic fatalities in the northern states due to weather conditions. You’re a lot more likely to go off an icy road in New York or Minnesota than Alabama or Louisiana. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/53 "2010-10-10T21:13:11Z")
What are the urbanization rates in northern vs southern US states? Tried to find them but didn’t manage to. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/54 "2010-10-10T21:15:44Z")
> [@Vlad\_Igor](#): > > I think it would be interesting to see those stats rendered by number of dry counties. Here in Bourbon country, 46 of 120 counties are dry, with another 19 moist (a wet city in a dry county). In Tennessee, the Jack Daniels distillery is in a county that can never become wet because of the requirements needed to make it wet. As far as alcohol consumption goes, there can be large regional differences within a state due to moral beliefs, wine/beer/distillery industry activity and life in a metropolitan area. I wonder what the effect is of having “dry” and “wet” counties. Drunk drivers may end up driving longer distances and that could negate the effect of lower overall alcohol consumption. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/55 "2010-10-10T21:18:43Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > Speaking of which, the war itself was also a big factor. The South lost big time. Their economy was destroyed and that screwed up everything else - education, health services, infrastructure. > > So did Germany in WWII, but they don’t keep claiming they fought for a worthy cause. They went on to build one of the strongest economies in the world. After WWII, Germany (at least West Germany) was made to acknowledge at least some of their crimes against humanity and later generations were taught the actions of Nazi Germany were wrong. The American South basically got a free pass once radical Reconstruction ended and to this day still glorify the slave system and treason against the United States to maintain that evil system. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/56 "2010-10-10T21:27:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > So did Germany in WWII, but they don’t keep claiming they fought for a worthy cause. They went on to build one of the strongest economies in the world. > > After WWII, Germany (at least West Germany) was made to acknowledge at least some of their crimes against humanity and later generations were taught the actions of Nazi Germany were wrong. The American South basically got a free pass once radical Reconstruction ended and to this day still glorify the slave system and treason against the United States to maintain that evil system. Bit of a broad brush there, don’t you think? (Some of us do read, you know.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/57 "2010-10-10T23:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Bit of a broad brush there, don’t you think? (Some of us do read, you know.) To be fair, there are a fair number of current politicians, disproportionately from the South, who openly advocate treason against the United States as the solution to what they see as the nation’s problems. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/58 "2010-10-11T01:12:08Z")
> [@Gil-Martin](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > The south has worse health, lower income, lower education levels, more obesity, higher crime, more out of wedlock births, lower age of sexual activity and just about every other measure of “goodness”. They routinely elect complete nut jobs. Of course there is something wrong with them. > > I’m currently living in the South (as a transplanted Yankee), and much of what you say seems accurate except for the comment about crime. Generally speaking, I feel safer walking about at night in the various areas of the South I’m familiar with (mostly Arkansas and Tennessee) than I ever did in the North. Like at least one other person in this thread, I’d be interested in seeing a cite for your claim. I think you should check out CQ Press’s annual State Crime Rankings. The three US states with the lowest crime rates across the board (specifically Assault, Burglary, Murder, Motor Vehicle Theft, Rape, and Robbery) for last year’s stats are the three most northern ones on the east coast: #1 NH, #2 VT, #3 ME. Neither Arkansas and Tennessee rank in the top 15, which means they’re both ranked less safe than even 15th place NY. In fact the Virginias are the _only_ southern states to rank in the top 15 spots for 2009. edit: I looked up the bottom 15 too, and both the ones you feel safe in, along with 5 other southern states, are in the 36th-50th safest states in the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/59 "2010-10-11T02:00:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > So did Germany in WWII, but they don’t keep claiming they fought for a worthy cause. They went on to build one of the strongest economies in the world. > > After WWII, Germany (at least West Germany) was made to acknowledge at least some of their crimes against humanity and later generations were taught the actions of Nazi Germany were wrong. The American South basically got a free pass once radical Reconstruction ended and to this day still glorify the slave system and treason against the United States to maintain that evil system. There are Southern Apologists (meaning not very to the rest of the world). I am basically one myself but you have to take in a much larger picture to be able to understand why that is with nuances. Southerners didn’t kidnap slaves the slaves in Africa. Other Africans did that dirty work. They didn’t import them for the most part. That was mostly left to the Northerners to handle the deals. There was real honest to god black slavery in the Northeast as well even in Northern New England not to mention white slavery in indentured servitude. You would be amazed at the number of people in Boston that think black slavery was a thing people down south did when this was once ground zero for importation and selling of them. The South is more integrated in black and white terms than any other area of the country. It has to be because the cultures are codependent. It would take several books to describe why but most white Southerners are very kind everyone and things hum along great most of the time. Many of us where raised partially black by nannies and other domestic help and love them very much. It is different from other areas in that you just don’t have a business meeting with a token black person and call it diversity in action. In liberal Massachusetts, minorities are the people have government plans about to keep them reasonably happy so that they don’t interfere in your exclusively white neighborhood. It doesn’t work that way in the South. Many cities and towns are majority black. They didn’t stay there because no one in their family has ever been able to scrape up enough cash for a U-Haul rental over 5 generations either. It is mostly by choice and many that do leave come back. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653/60 "2010-10-11T04:22:06Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > There are Southern Apologists (meaning not very to the rest of the world). I am basically one myself but you have to take in a much larger picture to be able to understand why that is with nuances. Southerners didn’t kidnap slaves the slaves in Africa. Other Africans did that dirty work. They didn’t import them for the most part. That was mostly left to the Northerners to handle the deals. There was real honest to god black slavery in the Northeast as well even in Northern New England not to mention white slavery in indentured servitude. You would be amazed at the number of people in Boston that think black slavery was a thing people down south did when this was once ground zero for importation and selling of them. Yes, there was slavery in other parts of the world. And there were non-Southerners who were involved in slavery. But face facts - slavery was the “cornerstone” of southern culture. Which is why, even after everyone else voluntarily stopped practicing slavery, southerners had to be forcibly stopped at gunpoint. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > The South is more integrated in black and white terms than any other area of the country. It has to be because the cultures are codependent. It would take several books to describe why but most white Southerners are very kind everyone and things hum along great most of the time. Many of us where raised partially black by nannies and other domestic help and love them very much. It is different from other areas in that you just don’t have a business meeting with a token black person and call it diversity in action. In liberal Massachusetts, minorities are the people have government plans about to keep them reasonably happy so that they don’t interfere in your exclusively white neighborhood. It doesn’t work that way in the South. Many cities and towns are majority black. They didn’t stay there because no one in their family has ever been able to scrape up enough cash for a U-Haul rental over 5 generations either. It is mostly by choice and many that do leave come back. And in the middle of the town square there’d be the ole’ lynchin’ tree for any niggers that got uppity. Saying that black people were happy in the old south was about as meaningful as having the KGB going door-to-door asking average Soviet citizens how they felt about Communism. The 100% Extreme Satisfaction results that were obtained might be slightly skewed. Like I wrote above, there’s a deep streak of willful self-deception running through southern culture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-literally-something-wrong-with-the-south/556653.md?page=4)