# Is there more to the story on Matthew 27:50-53? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167 "2012-03-29T15:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/61 "2012-04-03T15:06:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > It’s not a verse that often gets written about or preached about Thomas Paine explained why, over 200 years ago. Even priests have some shame, and this is such an obvious lie that they don’t want to touch it. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/62 "2012-04-03T15:14:24Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > My initial reaction to the verb “appearing” suggested something like ghostly appearances, not bodily resurrections What’s your initial reaction to the quote in the OP? “The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/63 "2012-04-03T15:15:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not to mention that just maybe someone in Jerusalem would have seen fit to mention earthquakes and an infestation of zombies. Forget it, Jake, it’s Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/64 "2012-04-03T15:27:02Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The “abortion is murder” view is, as I say, a pretty modern one; informed by scientific insights not available before the modern era. But the “abortion is a grave moral evil” view is a pretty old, and pretty consistent, one. If, as you say, Pope Innocent III had to excuse a monk who procured an early abortion, that does rather suggest that at this time an early abortion was ordinarly regarded as very seriously wrong; why else the need for papal intervention to save the monk? St. Basil the Great (circa 330 - 379 CE): “She who has deliberately destroyed a fetus has to pay the penalty of murder…here it is not only the child to be born that is vindicated, but also the woman herself who made an attempt against her own life, because usually the women die in such attempts. Furthermore, added to this is the destruction of the child, another murder… Moreover, those, too, who give drugs causing abortion are deliberate murderers themselves, as well as those receiving the poison which kills the fetus.” ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/65 "2012-04-03T15:35:58Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > The Jews of that time considered the Messiah to be a leader who would drive the Romans out, not someone who would rise from the dead. True. And? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/66 "2012-04-03T15:42:26Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > True. And? And so your previous post was nonsense. If Jesus didn’t drive the Romans out of Israel, and in fact was executed by them as a common criminal, then whatever else he did was irrelevant to a Jew looking for the Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/67 "2012-04-03T15:52:17Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Since the Virgin Birth is one of only a few things that Luke agrees with Matthew on, there seems to be more of a basis than misreading Isaiah. I would guess it was just Christians trying to compete with all the other stories of gods mating with mortals. I definitely agree that much of Christian lore comes directly from what seemed reasonable in a Greek and Roman environment - but if you claim that any of the women Zeus shtupped were virgins afterwards, I hope you are well grounded. Like a lightning rod is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/68 "2012-04-03T15:56:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Forget it, Jake, it’s Jerusalem. Maybe the answer is “what happens in Jerusalem, stays in Jerusalem.” ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/69 "2012-04-03T16:21:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I definitely agree that much of Christian lore comes directly from what seemed reasonable in a Greek and Roman environment - but if you claim that any of the women Zeus shtupped were virgins afterwards, I hope you are well grounded. Like a lightning rod is. There is no Biblical basis for Mary’s perpetual virginity, and in fact the gospels plainly state that Jesus had siblings. I realize that apologists will claim that “brother” can mean “cousin,” but Greek had different words for them, and Luke uses those different words in 8:19, referring to Jesus’ brothers, and 1:36, referring to Mary’s cousin. I don’t know or care why Catholics decided to make perpetual virginity part of their dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/70 "2012-04-03T19:27:57Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I would have to look it up again, I think it was Abraham but I do not remember just that I always wondered why,'If people who had died hundreds of years before Jesus time. were then seen with Jesus, where they had been for all the centuries, since no one was to be saved until Jesus died for them! The idea is that, before Jesus came along, people were saved by obeying The Law and offering the appropriate sacrifices. Then Jesus came along and said (loosely), “you don’t have to do those sacrifices any more, because I’m going to do the Big One for you”. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/71 "2012-04-03T19:43:24Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > The idea is that, before Jesus came along, people were saved by obeying The Law and offering the appropriate sacrifices. Then Jesus came along and said (loosely), “you don’t have to do those sacrifices any more, because I’m going to do the Big One for you”. But OT folks were still saved by Grace. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/72 "2012-04-03T20:42:29Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > But OT folks were still saved by Grace. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/73 "2012-04-03T20:48:42Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I don’t know or care why Catholics decided to make perpetual virginity part of their dogma. Because banging God’s ma is upsetting to the sort of people who would be early Catholics. I’d assume, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/74 "2012-04-03T21:05:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because banging God’s ma is upsetting to the sort of people who would be early Catholics. I’d assume, anyway. You are quite a pleasent person, arent you? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/75 "2012-04-03T21:26:21Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > What’s your initial reaction to the quote in the OP? > > “The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.” I guess I misread it the first time; it sure does seem to refer to the bodily resurrection of these old holy men. The NRSV, which I prefer to the NIV, translates the passage as "The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many. " Still, the use of the phrase “appeared to many” is a little troublesome. Why do they only appear to many, and not all? For that matter, why do they “appear”, instead of simply walking out of the tomb? It suggests to me something a little less than a simple return to physical, chemical life, and more to something more temporary. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/76 "2012-04-03T21:29:18Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > You are quite a pleasent person, arent you? Yeah, pretty much. But more important than my pleasant nature, is the fact that I don’t believe that the writings of stinking bronze-age primitives are especially insightful. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/77 "2012-04-03T21:44:49Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Still, the use of the phrase “appeared to many” is a little troublesome. Why do they only appear to many, and not all? For that matter, why do they “appear”, instead of simply walking out of the tomb? It suggests to me something a little less than a simple return to physical, chemical life, and more to something more temporary. I still think you’re misreading something that is straightforward. It DOES say they walked out of the tomb, and into the city. “Appeared to many” simply means “were seen by many.” They weren’t seen by EVERYBODY in Jerusalem for the same reason that the Superbowl isn’t seen by everyone in America, or the Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade isn’t seen by everyone in NYC. Some people were otherwise occupied, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/78 "2012-04-03T21:49:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I definitely agree that much of Christian lore comes directly from what seemed reasonable in a Greek and Roman environment - but if you claim that any of the women Zeus shtupped were virgins afterwards, I hope you are well grounded. Like a lightning rod is. Well, Danaë was impregnated by Zeus when a rain of gold fell upon her. It never says she was vaginally penetrated, so she might well have been a “virgin” (in some technical senses of the word) afterward. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/79 "2012-04-03T21:52:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, Danaë was impregnated by Zeus when a rain of gold fell upon her. And Leda just got goosed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167/80 "2012-04-03T22:17:24Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, Danaë was impregnated by Zeus when a rain of gold fell upon her. And thus, the “Golden Shower” was invented. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-more-to-the-story-on-matthew-27-50-53/617167.md?page=5)