# Is there really a disease/condition that makes you appear dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167 "2008-11-23T23:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rostfrei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7bcc69/32.png) [@rostfrei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rostfrei)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/1 "2008-11-23T23:41:41Z")
I was watching some tv show recently and it showed a guy who was drugged and the drug made him appear completely dead, although he wasn’t. During this whole thing, the guy was conscious, yet completely paralyzed. Naturally, the drug wore off just as the medical examiner was about to saw open his breast plate. Is there really such a drug out there? ---
**Author:** ![rostfrei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7bcc69/32.png) [@rostfrei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rostfrei)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/2 "2008-11-23T23:43:50Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > I was watching some tv show recently and it showed a guy who was drugged and the drug made him appear completely dead, although he wasn’t. During this whole thing, the guy was conscious, yet completely paralyzed. Naturally, the drug wore off just as the medical examiner was about to saw open his breast plate. Is there really such a drug out there? And please don’t say, all of them. ---
**Author:** ![SharkB8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@SharkB8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharkB8)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/3 "2008-11-23T23:50:20Z")
Not sure if anyone remembers the cocktail Harrison Ford’s character gave Michelle Pfeifer’s character in “What Lies Beneath.” But I think she was completely paralyzed. Even her eyes. Are you talking about something that gives you no pulse? No pulse means no circulation and you \*will \*die. Throw in no breathing and, well, the rest is history. Maybe a drug that creates a sort of hibernating state like those frogs that “die” and freeze over in the winter? ---
**Author:** ![rostfrei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7bcc69/32.png) [@rostfrei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rostfrei)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/4 "2008-11-23T23:55:52Z")
> [@SharkB8](#): > > Are you talking about something that gives you no pulse? No pulse means no circulation and you \*will \*die. Throw in no breathing and, well, the rest is history. > > Maybe a drug that creates a sort of hibernating state like those frogs that “die” and freeze over in the winter? In the show, the guy still had a pulse, but it was so slow, that it was almost undetectable. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/5 "2008-11-23T23:55:56Z")
[Pufferfish (Fugu) poisoning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu#Fugu_poisoning). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/6 "2008-11-24T00:35:36Z")
> [@](#): > > There are some reports of completely paralyzed but fully conscious victims that were believed to be dead, and woke up a few days later or just before being cremated[citation needed]. In some parts of Japan a fugu victim is put next to his coffin for three days to verify the death. If the body does not decompose then it is not yet dead.[citation needed] These are pretty obviously urban legends. Note that there is no citation or authority to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/7 "2008-11-24T01:09:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > These are pretty obviously urban legends. Note that there is no citation or authority to back them up. _sigh_ Paralysis and cyanoisis (turning blue) while remaining mentally lucid ARE symptoms of pufferfish poisoning (tetrodotoxin poisoning). Perhaps this cite will satisfy you more: [http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap39.html](http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap39.html) _The second stage of the intoxication is increasing paralysis. Many victims are unable to move; even sitting may be difficult. There is increasing respiratory distress. Speech is affected, and the victim usually exhibits dyspnea, cyanosis, and hypotension. Paralysis increases and convulsions, mental impairment, and cardiac arrhythmia may occur. **The victim, although completely paralyzed, may be conscious and in some cases completely lucid until shortly before death**._(emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/8 "2008-11-24T02:10:53Z")
If you are completely lucid, even if paralyzed, then that’s not the scenario in the OP. The requirement was somebody who appeared to be dead. That’s the part of the Wiki page I thought you were referring to, since that’s the only part that was relevant. Several drugs paralyze people, but it’s the making you appear dead part that is only in fiction. Fugu certainly paralyzes people. Make them seem dead? Probably urban legend, just as I said. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/9 "2008-11-24T03:09:50Z")
My great-aunt (who is not the most linear of storytellers, but who remains sharp as a tack in her late eighties) tells how she and my grandfather (who died quite young, and thus can’t corroborate her story) were saved during the Holocaust by the infirmary doctor in the labor camp in which they were imprisoned. When the Nazis came to take away all the Jews from the camp, the doctor gave the two of them a drug that somehow made them appear dead, then told the Nazis not to bother with the two corpses. When the Nazis left, the doctor gave them another drug to revive them. I’ve always wondered what the drugs might have been, and have no way of knowing how closely the Nazis might have examined the ‘bodies’ and therefore how dead they really appeared. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/10 "2008-11-24T03:22:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If you are completely lucid, even if paralyzed, then that’s not the scenario in the OP. The requirement was somebody who appeared to be dead. I don’t see the problem… perhaps you’re confusing [lucid](http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=define%3A+lucid&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f) with [alert](http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+alert&btnG=Search&hl=en&sa=2)? There’s [this case involving a cobra snake bite](http://www.casesjournal.com/content/1/1/16) where the patient appeared dead for a time. I imagine she would actually have died had she not been on a respirator though. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/11 "2008-11-24T03:24:36Z")
Check out the story of [Clairvius Narcisse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairvius_Narcisse). Pufferfish venom was part of that, along with cane toad venom and an infusion of _Datura stramonium_. AFAIK nobody can survive any extended period of time without any heartbeat (except in cases of submersion in icy cold water) so I would strongly doubt any story in which someone really appeared dead to a medical examiner, unless said medical examiner were doing a really sloppy job. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/12 "2008-11-24T07:58:36Z")
There is [pancuronium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancuronium), commonly administered as the second drug in the lethal injection triumvirate. It causes complete paralyzation, but it actually increases the heart rate, rather than decreasing it. No MD would think a person under the influence of pancuronium dead, but it does cause complete paralyzation (including, one might add, your respiratory system, so pancuronium can easily cause asphyxiation). ---
**Author:** ![danielravits97](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@danielravits97](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danielravits97)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/13 "2014-06-14T07:04:48Z")
The disease Cataplexy - [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OzVt8bD8D0) People seem like they are dead but they are still able to hear and see. The link above is a video about a woman that had been in morgue a few times because doctors thought she was dead. So no things like people looking dead and yet being alive are not legends, they are true. ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/14 "2014-06-14T07:36:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Check out the story of [Clairvius Narcisse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairvius_Narcisse). Pufferfish venom was part of that, along with cane toad venom and an infusion of _Datura stramonium_. > > AFAIK nobody can survive any extended period of time without any heartbeat (except in cases of submersion in icy cold water) so I would strongly doubt any story in which someone really appeared dead to a medical examiner, unless said medical examiner were doing a really sloppy job. Yeah. Tetrodotoxin will do the trick. Cases of fugu poisoning and research into traditional zombie potions have shown a Romeo & Juliet thing is fully possible. But dosage can be tricky… As to a medical examiner, they are not always involved. Especially if the victim is older. In the U.S. an emergency room doctor would likely make the call, and these vary greatly in quality. I read somewhere that dead white people really look dead. But harder to tell with dark skinned people. All of Wade Davis’ books on the topic are interesting. > **[Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie: Davis, Wade:...](https://www.amazon.com/Passage-Darkness-Ethnobiology-Haitian-Zombie/dp/0807842109)** > > Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie \[Davis, Wade\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/15 "2014-06-14T08:22:34Z")
How about curare? That induces near complete paralysis and, at the right dose, is not lethal. The main risk, I believe is that if the diaphragm becomes too completely paralyzed the victim will asphyxiate because they are unable to breathe. However, I believe a sub-lethal dose will not only make the person unable to move but will make the breathing shallow enough so that is difficult to detect. Of course in all cases (curare, fugu, or whatever), if the victim is not breathing at all they will be dead pretty quickly. > [@Fishtar](#): > > I read somewhere that dead white people really look dead. But harder to tell with dark skinned people. 😕 So darker people look even more really dead? > [@Fishtar](#): > > All of Wade Davis’ books on the topic are interesting. > > [Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie: Davis, Wade: 9780807842102: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Passage-Darkness-Ethnobiology-Haitian-Zombie/dp/0807842109) [Wade Davis is full of shit.](http://www.csicop.org/si/show/zombies_and_tetrodotoxin/) ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/16 "2014-06-14T09:24:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > 😕 So darker people look even more really dead? > [Wade Davis is full of shit.](http://www.csicop.org/si/show/zombies_and_tetrodotoxin/) Just a bit harder to tell if dark skinned people are dead, as they do not turn all pasty and blue. Wade Davis is full of shit…a bit harsh. Just prone to hasty conclusions, a bit ignorant about medicine and physics, and fully out his element in Haiti. No different than any other ethnologist or sociologist or psychologist. Pseudo-science is still interesting. He still made contact with vodoun practitioners and learned a lot about hallucinogenic plants and mind control and such. As for tetrodotoxin, there were quite a few reports of dead people waking up before they banned puffer fish liver in Japan. Such things are more unlikely these days, with heart rate monitors, and knowledge of rigor mortis. But still, mistakes are made. For instance, most cases of rabies in the U.S. we’re transmitted through…organ donation. “Hey, this patient came in foaming at the mouth and then trashed around and died. Let’s chop him up and puts bits of him into twenty other patients…” ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/17 "2014-06-14T09:47:57Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > I was watching some tv show recently and it showed a guy who was drugged and the drug made him appear completely dead, although he wasn’t. During this whole thing, the guy was conscious, yet completely paralyzed. Naturally, the drug wore off just as the medical examiner was about to saw open his breast plate. Is there really such a drug out there? The degree to which someone “appears dead” is a reflection of the competence of the individual making that assessment. Very shallow respirations can be missed by the careless, as can weak pulses. A euthermic individual without either is dead, or about to be dead. In theory a drug which creates profound obtundation may fake out a lay examiner, but the idea that some sort of suspended animation is possible is silly. Profoundly hypothermic individuals can appear somewhat deader, but for that to be survivable the mechanism of hypothermia needs to be relatively rapid, such as cold-water immersion. You cannot be “conscious, yet completely paralyzed.” If you are completely paralyzed, you cannot breathe, and if you cannot breathe you will die. ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/18 "2014-06-14T10:11:57Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The degree to which someone “appears dead” is a reflection of the competence of the individual making that assessment. If you poke them with a sharp stick and they don’t jerk, then they are dead. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/19 "2014-06-14T10:41:55Z")
> [@Fishtar](#): > > But still, mistakes are made. For instance, most cases of rabies in the U.S. we’re transmitted through…organ donation. > > “Hey, this patient came in foaming at the mouth and then trashed around and died. Let’s chop him up and puts bits of him into twenty other patients…” Rabies sufferers (human and animal alike) don’t necessarily have to have those symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167/20 "2014-06-14T11:13:52Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Rabies sufferers (human and animal alike) don’t necessarily have to have those symptoms. Yeah, an exaggeration. Still, a youngish person comes in with strange neurological symptoms and then goes brain dead…maybe a red flag something weird is happening. And, in the first case, the donor’s family knew there had been a bat bite. Last years case still under investigation… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-a-disease-condition-that-makes-you-appear-dead/474167.md?page=2)