Is there really no thread for The Leftovers?

[SlackerInc]

@ISiddiqui

Well, the article didn’t say his faith in God - it could be his faith in Kevin as the Messiah. After all, he didn’t go to the farm at all. I think the later is far more likely, but I agree he likely didn’t lose his faith in God.

I agree with you, but I’m not sure the author of that piece does.

[ISiddiqui]

In re-reading the article, I think you are correct. I wonder if this is part of the believer/non-believer divide at work. I’m not saying every non-believer has, but I’ve noticed that a lot have been openly waiting for Matt to lose his faith in God (or be shown to be completely wrong).

[SlackerInc]

I’m an atheist…

[computergeek]

I feel frustrated because I continue to read all the adoration and rapture the critics (and others) are heaping on this show but I didn’t get it. I watched the first season or most of it and it ultimately didn’t do much for me and confused me. But, given the low ratings, it seems I’m not the only one so it’s good to see it’s not just me and that it’s mainly just a difficult show to get into. Westworld was difficult to understand as well, but at least it was enjoyable on the surface

[SlackerInc]

@computergeek

I feel frustrated because I continue to read all the adoration and rapture the critics (and others) are heaping on this show but I didn’t get it. I watched the first season or most of it and it ultimately didn’t do much for me and confused me. But, given the low ratings, it seems I’m not the only one so it’s good to see it’s not just me and that it’s mainly just a difficult show to get into. Westworld was difficult to understand as well, but at least it was enjoyable on the surface

But many critics also did not like the first season. I didn’t like it either, but I love the second and third seasons. If you haven’t watched them, then you don’t really have an opportunity to know why they are raving about it.

Just compare Metacritic scores from Season 1 to Season 3:

The Leftovers

The Leftovers season 3

For one specific example, here’s Matt Zoller-Seitz on Season 1:

Though I haven’t read Perrotta’s novel, I’m told there’s a point to all the misery, perhaps even a hint of hope. After all, if humanity can endure and transcend something this horrific, it can endure and transcend anything. If that’s where we’re headed, though, it’s going to be a long, dark road, and I’m concerned there won’t be enough compensatory aesthetic virtues to offset the agony. The first few episodes don’t showcase enough artistry to justify all the slogging and weeping, the bloodied faces and broken hearts.

Now, MZS on S3:

The superb final season of The Leftovers takes us Down Under, to Australia…This season is also drily funny. Funny is not a word that would’ve sprung to mind during season one, or even throughout much of season two.

[MoonMoon]

@computergeek

I feel frustrated because I continue to read all the adoration and rapture the critics (and others) are heaping on this show but I didn’t get it. I watched the first season or most of it and it ultimately didn’t do much for me and confused me. But, given the low ratings, it seems I’m not the only one so it’s good to see it’s not just me and that it’s mainly just a difficult show to get into. Westworld was difficult to understand as well, but at least it was enjoyable on the surface

Yes. That’s exactly what we’ve been talking about in this thread. Many people dropped out after the first season, but the second and third seasons are the reward for slogging through the first. The first is important to the whole, but that doesn’t mean it’s fun to watch. The second and third seasons are sublime television.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Well, I personally loved the first season. I loved the second and third as well. Each season reinvented itself, was fresh, and completely drew me in.

[Lucky_Mike]

@MoonMoon

Yes. That’s exactly what we’ve been talking about in this thread. Many people dropped out after the first season, but the second and third seasons are the reward for slogging through the first. The first is important to the whole, but that doesn’t mean it’s fun to watch. The second and third seasons are sublime television.

The amazing thing about humanity is the diversity of our experiences and how two people can watch the same thing and see something so very, very different.

To me, season 1 was epic, heart breaking, and spiritually deep. Almost no mythicism or magic going on, just human beings reacting to the inexplicable combined with un-closable grief. Questioning their sanity and their reality. In fact, the show actually pokes holes in most major religious explanations, showing how no one is right which just leads to even more confusion (hence cults).

Season 2 started getting all mythical and supernatural. But, it was still good with an excellent ending.

Season 3 was just terrible and reeked of writers who did not think they had to write an end to this thing and so they wrote the best thing they could come up with. Yeah, I know, the writers claim they wrote the ending first… but I guarantee that was not in season 1. Before filing season 3, yup, I believe them, but honestly I think that was born from a “holy shit, we have to write a season 3 and make an ending to this” moment.

S3 elicited no emotion from me whatsoever, whereas I was on the verge of tears at times in season 1.

Nonetheless, I find your opinion as valid as mine and am glad someone else found enjoyment in a very deep, well produced (for the most part) show.

For those who have not watched, i will not spoil, but egad what a terrible last show. The ending was somewhat interesting and there was a salient point at the end “love where you are and what you have, not what you have lost or think you can be (or are afraid of losing)”. But man, what a long road to get to the last 6 minutes.

[ISiddiqui]

That was gorgeous final 20mins. The final episode was very good, but that final conversation was amazing.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Banquet_Bear]

@Lucky_Mike

For those who have not watched, i will not spoil, but egad what a terrible last show. The ending was somewhat interesting and there was a salient point at the end “love where you are and what you have, not what you have lost or think you can be (or are afraid of losing)”. But man, what a long road to get to the last 6 minutes.

…I have never ever disagreed with an opinion more than this one. A perfect final episode for me and the third season was just brilliant.

[Banquet_Bear]

…Lindelof gives his thoughts on “Should people watch Season 1”: (warning, plenty of spoilers for the whole series)

I actually measure the show in pre-Mimi and post-Mimi, and I can’t say in stronger terms how influential and consequential Mimi Leder was to the show. Up until episode five, which was the first episode that she directed, Lesli Linka Glatter was doing the directing EP job, but then she went back to Homeland. Then Mimi came in for the back half of season one and stayed all the way until the end. That’s where, for me, the appreciable shift happened in both the process of making the show and understanding what the show was.

…

The process of making the show appreciably changed from season one to seasons two and three. I think two and three are more similar to one another than one is to either two or three. I can’t even watch the pilot.

…

I would say the only reason that the people who like seasons two and three like it so much is because they made it through season one. I’m not being cutesy when I say that you can’t really achieve anything truly special or unique without a certain degree of suffering.

…

What I would say is, season one is not unwatchable, it’s ten hours of your life and of those ten hours, five of those episodes are categorically on the same level as episodes from seasons two and three, in my opinion. Half of them. I’m not going to tell you which ones they are, but you’ll know. “Lens” only works emotionally because you watched season one. You just gotta power through, man. That’s my advice.

Damon Lindelof Explains ’The Leftovers’ Series Finale. And Doesn’t.

And I just read this: a fascinating, exhaustive look at the making of the finale. Full of spoilers, don’t click if you haven’t seen the last episode.

How to End a TV Show: An Exclusive Look at the Making of The Leftovers Finale

[SlackerInc]

Funny to see fans here disagree with Lindelof about the first season! Obviously you will commonly see that in terms of the fans being more negative, but the other direction is a sight to see.

@Banquet_Bear

…I have never ever disagreed with an opinion more than this one. A perfect final episode for me and the third season was just brilliant.

I agree. And think how cheap the budget must have been for the finale , other than the machine, which was really scary.

I took Nora totally at her word, until I read Alan Sepinwall poking holes in her story. So, hmm.

[MoonMoon]

Ha, validated by Lindelof.

Thanks for that Vulture link, BanquetBear. That was a fantastic read.

[ISiddiqui]

@SlackerInc

Funny to see fans here disagree with Lindelof about the first season! Obviously you will commonly see that in terms of the fans being more negative, but the other direction is a sight to see.

… Lindelof basically said what everyone here said about Season 1 (with the exception of Lucky Mike). I’m really confused as to what you think the rest of us have been saying.

And FWIW, in the full quote, he basically compares it to Breaking Bad or The Americans - in that the pilot/early show isn’t nearly as good as it what it ends up being.

[ISiddiqui]

Though it does seem that you were correct that the Kevin quote in “The Most Powerful Man in the World (and His Identical Twin Brother)” was partially about Lindelof’s regret for how the GR was portrayed (although I bet that Perrotta would think a bit differently about it).

[aldiboronti]

I loved the first season of this show, the second not so much, the third barely at all. As I commented previously the characters began to grate and one began to suspect that the loved ones who disappeared did so by design. Best word to describe the finale would be maudlin. Kevin and Nora richly deserved each other although given their character it’s pretty clear that they would soon be heading in opposite directions as fast as they possibly could.

[SlackerInc]

@ISiddiqui

Though it does seem that you were correct that the Kevin quote in “The Most Powerful Man in the World (and His Identical Twin Brother)” was partially about Lindelof’s regret for how the GR was portrayed (although I bet that Perrotta would think a bit differently about it).

Right, since the first season adapts his book, and the rest is new material for the show. So I take it back: it’s actually not so weird after all for people to disagree with Lindelof since they may just like the author Perrotta better.

But in any event, that’s not just a minor detail. I was not crazy about the storyline of Tommy at Holy Wayne’s compound; but it was the GR that really annoyed me the most.

[E-DUB]

SlackerInc wrote: "But in any event, that’s not just a minor detail. I was not crazy about the storyline of Tommy at Holy Wayne’s compound; but it was the GR that really annoyed me the most. "

Well, in the wake of an event like the “Departure”, I could see a dozen new cults popping up. In a real world they might not be like Holy Wayne or the GR, but maybe they would be.

Props to Carrie Coon for giving this episode everything she had (including a full frontal scene).

Wonder if this book might have inspired the author.

The Disappearance (Bison Frontiers of Imagination): Wylie, Philip, Silverberg,...

[SlackerInc]

Now I’ve read more of the Vulture piece. Lindelof wanted to actually show Nora in the other world, and show the baby from the pilot, with the mother disappeared from the front seat! Oh man, that would have been so badass. Perrotta (who, as I’ve already been saying, is the one mainly behind the worst parts of this show) blocked him, and they compromised. Ah well, I’m definitely going to take her story as canon now.

[ISiddiqui]

It would have been awful if Lindelof won that battle… would have taken out a lot of mystery, IMO. And, of course, the ambiguity as to whether it was the truth or the nicer story (a la “Life of Pi”) is kind of the point of seasons 2 and 3 - that early reveal would have robbed a lot of that.