# Is there really such a good thing as "so bad it's good"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328 "2010-11-20T13:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/21 "2010-11-20T19:48:47Z")
Yes there is. [The Room](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ4KzClb1C4). I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/22 "2010-11-20T19:53:39Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Have you watched it recently? Yep. And I still think it’s a great movie. I think it gains even more on a second viewing because you notice things that you didn’t see before. I thought the use of the color red was great and the atmosphere and pacing of the story worked really well. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/23 "2010-11-20T20:05:14Z")
Submitted for your consideration: [Murder on Flight 502](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073418/) I wouldn’t choose to watch a “so bad it’s good” movie with everyone, but a group of my friends had a great time watching this. I found the DVD in a $1 bin. So much the better. It’s a combination of questionable acting, and cliche’s galore. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/24 "2010-11-20T20:05:37Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > This is described perfectly in the This American Life episode “Fiasco,” which takes on a truly catastrophic local production of “Peter Pan.” Essentially, at first the audience is supportive and wants the show to be good, but then the audience turns against the players and actively glories in the badness, in fact they want it to be _worse_. > > Listen here, Act One: Opening Night: > [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/61/fiasco](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/61/fiasco) > > All of the segments are worthy, but Act One is a moment of genius. Seconded - we heard this in the car on a trip to Florida and laughed so hard we had to pull off the road, because I couldn’t see to drive. Tears ran down my face. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/25 "2010-11-20T20:39:22Z")
The original “Little Shop of Horrors” fits perfectly in the thread. It was terribly written terribly acted and you could not turn it off. it was run on Thanksgiving Day for years and it became a family tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/26 "2010-11-20T20:41:31Z")
Me making love is often described as “so bad it’s good”. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/27 "2010-11-20T20:57:20Z")
One of my favorite SBIGs is _The Golden Voyage of Sinbad_. Aside from the hotness of John Philip Law as Sinbad, and the trademark silly yet awesome Harryhousen effects, there’s really nothing to recommend it as a straightforward film. But the OTT acting from Tom Baker (aka the fourth Doctor on _Doctor Who_), the crazy bad performances from most of the rest of the cast, and the cheesey script all combine to be great fun. Similarly, but probably with more tongue firmly in cheek, is _Mommie Dearest_. Diana Scarwid’s bizarrely off-key performance, Faye Dunaway’s psychotic scene-chewing, and (along some genuinely good character actors like Michael Lerner and Howard da Silva) some of the worst supporting cast members ever – Crawford’s loyal assistant is staggeringly unnatural as an actress – are accompanied by off-the-charts execrable writing. Don’t get me wrong, it’s funny as hell but I don’t think it was intended that way. Now it’s a cult classic to be delighted in, its lines lovingly cheered along with. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/28 "2010-11-20T21:07:06Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The original “Little Shop of Horrors” fits perfectly in the thread. It was terribly written terribly acted and you could not turn it off. Also: [Jack Nicholson.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAli9a8bbys)🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Silent\_Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Silent\_Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silent_Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/29 "2010-11-20T21:37:22Z")
How about **Battlefield Earth**? I think it’s hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/30 "2010-11-20T21:58:46Z")
For me, no. There are movies I like _despite_ the flaws, but none I like _because_ of the flaws. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/31 "2010-11-20T23:39:12Z")
I agree with Shark Attack 3. “Yeah, but I’m still kinda wired. What do you say I take you home and…” ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/32 "2010-11-20T23:55:19Z")
**Mean Guns**. Christopher Lambert **(Highlander)** and Ice-T. A group of criminals is invited to a completed but not yet open prison to compete in a deadly game off last man standing for a suitcase full of cash. Cheesy dialogue, wooden acting and a ridiculous script combine for a hilarious good time. “It’s about redemption”. Bwah-hah-hah! ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/33 "2010-11-21T07:04:52Z")
I love you IP, so I’m tempted to put some work into my answer, but I think the other posters have given some pretty good reasons already, so I’ll just respond to some of your points, and add one additional criteria. > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > “it was shit but we extracted whatever entertainment from it we could”. It’s more like “it was shit by several normal benchmarks for movie quality, however there was some element or elements that made it highly entertaining despite it’s failure by those benchmarks”. Well there’s three major factors involved. 1. There are a whole shitload of elements that go into making a film potentially good and/or entertaining (not always equivalent). Being very strong in any element can easily overwhelm a large number of failures in other elements. So a film might not have succeeded in some areas but did succeed in others. 2. Intention vs execution. While a film might have intended to be one thing and failed to do that, it might _unintentionally_ be superb in some other way. So it was “bad” at what it was trying to be, but ended up being “good” at something else. 3. “Humor is other people’s misfortune”. In addition to the myriad other ways in which a film can entertain when some elements fail, the main one is of course humor. Failure is often funny. And “bad” is often hilarious. > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I don’t understand how a piece of literature, TV or film making can be good by virtue of being bad (this is poorly written, badly acted, no plot, poor execution, boring or just plain non-sensical). Usually it’s either 1) it’s good because of a reason OTHER than the bad parts or else 2) it’s FUNNY because of the bad parts > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Sure, I get the MST3K thing, but watching people make fun of a bad movie is fun because I’m watching THEM, not the movie itself. I have to wildly disagree with you here (personal preference - obviously a lot of people love the show). I LOVE to MST3K as an activity, but watching other people MST3K something is horribly boring to me (the actual show is especially annoying because they don’t even show the whole movie, so a lot of context is missing). MST3K is NOT a spectator sport. Participants only! > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Plan 9 from outer space is never going to be a good film, no matter how often the term “irony” is applied to it. I’ve never actually seen it, but I can imagine it being enjoyable in the same way that seeing your elementary school kid play third lobster at the birth of Jesus would be. Anyway, entertaining is not equivalent to of quality. My other element: Cultural Dissonance! It’s fun to watch films from other countries that are played seriously, but for which seem kind of cheesy or weird or funny because we come from different cultural norms. My ultimate “So bad it’s good” film: D-War. At the time it was the highest budget Korean film. And it was played for seriousness, and had both American and Korean actors, in both languages. And it had elements of awesomeness, but, they were things like dragons fighting helicopters, which, let’s face it, is the wet dream of our inner boys, but seems silly in adulthood. Even in the face of ‘silly premise’, “AWESOME!” brings us unavoidable joy. Also, the stiltedness of American actors trying to spout dialogue written by ESL Koreans was full of fun. Plus the absurdity of “flashback within a flashback within a flashback”. Plus the dialogue where characters made comments about their own situations that were dead on how the audience were feeling about the silliness of the plot. To summarize: something can be FULL OF WIN, even if unintentionally, and even if not Oscar worthy. Although I can vouch for the phenomenon sans mind altering, I suspect that many cases involve some sort of substance. ---
**Author:** ![SleepyDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SleepyDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleepyDuck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/34 "2010-11-21T07:09:53Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I have also seen many theatrical performances on stage that were so wretched, you couldn’t take your eyes off it - think of a car wreck on stage. Those are sometimes very entertaining as you can’t believe anyone really thought it was good enough to perform in front of an audience - singers off key, entrances flubbed, lines missed, sets falling apart, costume malfunctions, lighting and sound cues off, props missing - oh the glory of watching a truly horrible stage performance. Those lucky enough to see them will guffaw for years relating what they saw. She’s in the attic! ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/35 "2010-11-21T07:11:35Z")
I should probably add the mention of ‘exploitation’ films, which are intentionally of low quality, but include lots of one or more categories of titillating material to gain viewership. Sex, TNA, violence, explosions, one-liners, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/36 "2010-11-21T08:31:52Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Also: [Jack Nicholson.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAli9a8bbys)🆒 Who was quoted saying: “Yeah, I’d love to make another movie with Roger [Corman]. As long as I don’t have to _watch_ it. . . .” ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/37 "2010-11-21T08:45:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I like **The Sixth Sense**. I agree, it’s his only movie that is worth watching. But I agree with **pepperlandgirl** that his weaknesses are apparent in it; this particular movie played into his weaknesses, in a way. He got lucky, but he is a _terrible, terrible_ director through and through. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/38 "2010-11-21T08:47:10Z")
Shatner is the king of so bad it’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/39 "2010-11-21T10:35:55Z")
Thanks all for the enlightening comments. I’m still not sure I really get this, but will try and have an open mind. Personally I’m all about satire - I went to see Twilight and thought it was awful but then found a [Twilight breadbox](http://community.livejournal.com/m15m/19551.html) online and actually did fall off my seat laughing reading it, so it was okay. But the movie only gave the satirist material to work with, it didn’t make the movie any better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/40 "2010-11-21T12:29:51Z")
> [@choie](#): > > One of my favorite SBIGs is _The Golden Voyage of Sinbad_. Aside from the hotness of John Philip Law as Sinbad, and the trademark silly yet awesome Harryhousen effects, there’s really nothing to recommend it as a straightforward film. But the OTT acting from Tom Baker (aka the fourth Doctor on _Doctor Who_), the crazy bad performances from most of the rest of the cast, and the cheesey script all combine to be great fun. **FLASH!!!** …aaAAaaa… **He’llSaveEveryOneOfUs!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328.md?page=3)