# Is there really such a good thing as "so bad it's good"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328 "2010-11-20T13:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Surbey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/41 "2010-11-21T12:35:11Z")
I am shocked and appauled that no one on here mentioned Troll 2, [The Best Worst Movie](http://bestworstmovie.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/42 "2010-11-21T12:53:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > **FLASH!!!** > > …aaAAaaa… > > **He’llSaveEveryOneOfUs!** The thing is, _Flash Gordon_ is [del]The King Of The Impossible[/del] the textbook example of a “Camp” movie that doesn’t take itself too seriously, is a lot of fun, and has both BRIAN BLESSED _and_ Timothy Dalton in it, as well as Max Von Sydow as [del]Dr. Fu Manchu In Space![/del] Ming The Merciless. And it’s actually not a bad film; you can get your mates around and everyone can get caught up in how silly and fun it all is, and then spend the next few days at work making references to it . I have to say I’ve never understood why people here constantly hold _Showgirls_ up as the “Epitome of bad filmmaking in the recent era” or whatever. I’ve seen it a couple of times and I’ve always regarded it as a perfectly average, unremarkable, but still perfectly watchable film about a young woman trying to make it big in Las Vegas. I’m a huge fan of Hong Kong Action Movies, and I’ve seen a lot of them over the years and most of them are fun, forgettable, and have a gigantic shoot-out at the end; and the worse the dubbing the better IMHO. (Then there are the real masterpieces like _Hard Boiled_ and _A Better Tomorrow II_ and _Vengeance_, but you don’t want to hear about those.) There was one I recall seeing at the local Cult Cinema Night at uni or somewhere that had appalling dubbing (It made _Kung Pow: Enter The Fist_ look like a masterpiece of synchronisation) and it made an otherwise unremarkable but “bad” Chop Socky flick become a fun piece of entertainment. Some time later I saw it on SBS and thought “Awesome! I enjoyed that film when I saw it!”, but the problem was that the SBS version was in Cantonese with (grammatically correct and sensible) English subtitles and it was… not fun to watch. In short, “So Bad It’s Good” is a tough concept to pin down, but I think most people know it when they see it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/43 "2010-11-21T18:23:56Z")
I don’t think movies like **Showgirls** should be counted in “so bad it’s good.” First, I think it’s a perfectly good movie. But the elements that are “bad” are so obviously intentional that I’m hesitant to give the film what it wants and actually call it “bad.” The types of movies that are “so bad they’re good” must be sincere efforts that end up being the exact opposite of what they sincerely intended to be. Swayze and Rowdy Harrington took **Roadhouse** seriously and genuinely thought they were making a good movie–I think Verhoeven knew with every single frame what he was doing and why he was doing it. To that end, I don’t like the way Syfy/Asylum films have become so self-aware. **Sharktopus** was perfectly watchable, but the whole time there was a sly nudge-nudge-wink-wink at the audience, like the director wanted to say “I get the joke. I’m in on it. See, this is hilarious.” There’s even a character who only utters ironic lines. Whereas **Megashark vs Giant Octopus** was just regular old by-the-book badness without a hint of irony. Contrast them both with \*\* Piranha 3-D\*\*, which was both self aware and well made, and that’s just a movie that is so good it’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/44 "2010-11-22T04:33:06Z")
I submit **Howard the Duck** for this category. ---
**Author:** ![jormundgondir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@jormundgondir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jormundgondir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/45 "2010-11-22T05:37:14Z")
I’m still trying to figure out my life again after seeing Zardoz for the first time last week. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/46 "2010-11-22T06:05:03Z")
I agree that it’s about intent vs. results. It’s really the same phenomenon that drives me to look at sites that feature bad celebrity plastic surgery or tacky cakes or red-carpet fashion disasters. It amuses me to no end to ponder how the person in question could have possibly thought whatever it was had been a good idea. I can just imagine them making Roadhouse and saying “we need a really good tag-line…something that people remember and say over and over, like ‘I’ll be back…’ Oh, I know! I have a good one! ‘I thought you’d be taller!’ That’s great!!” What on earth were they thinking? ---
**Author:** ![SleepyDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SleepyDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleepyDuck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/47 "2010-11-22T06:19:12Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > I submit **Howard the Duck** for this category. For some non-ironic reason, I like this movie. [Lea Thompson](http://www.comicsbulletin.com/foom/images/1003/LeaThompson.jpg) may have something to do with this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/48 "2010-11-22T07:07:17Z")
I apparently am an exception but I’ve never gotten behind the “so bad it’s good” idea. To me bad is bad. I can enjoy a movie that has a lot flaws. But I’m enjoying it for what’s good about it not what’s bad about it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/49 "2010-11-22T08:38:41Z")
The thing about So Bad it’s good is that it implies that the worst it gets, the more you like it. But that’s not it. There’s a step beyond–so bad it’s bad, as well as a step above (So Mediocre it’s boring, maybe?). And, yes, it is redeeming qualities that are being found–it’s just that a lot of them aren’t in the movie itself, but in enjoying the movie on a meta level. The biggest thing is seeing humor in a situation that was not intended to be humorous. However, in a so bad it’s bad flick, even that will fall flat, for example, it’s bad in an overly cliched way. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/50 "2010-11-22T19:10:50Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > This is described perfectly in the This American Life episode “Fiasco,” which takes on a truly catastrophic local production of “Peter Pan.” Essentially, at first the audience is supportive and wants the show to be good, but then the audience turns against the players and actively glories in the badness, in fact they want it to be _worse_. > > Listen here, Act One: Opening Night: > [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/61/fiasco](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/61/fiasco) > > All of the segments are worthy, but Act One is a moment of genius. Ha, this cracked me up for a solid half hour. Recommended! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/51 "2010-11-22T19:21:30Z")
Have you ever watched any of the [Billy Jack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Jack) movies? ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328/52 "2010-11-22T19:35:07Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Similarly, but probably with more tongue firmly in cheek, is _Mommie Dearest_. Diana Scarwid’s bizarrely off-key performance, Faye Dunaway’s psychotic scene-chewing, and (along some genuinely good character actors like Michael Lerner and Howard da Silva) some of the worst supporting cast members ever – Crawford’s loyal assistant is staggeringly unnatural as an actress – are accompanied by off-the-charts execrable writing. Don’t get me wrong, it’s funny as hell but I don’t think it was intended that way. Now it’s a cult classic to be delighted in, its lines lovingly cheered along with. If you haven’t already, get the dvd and watch it with the John Waters commentary. Lord almighty, my friends and I were rolling on the floor laughing. He spends most of it defending her mothering skills, which just makes it so much better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-really-such-a-good-thing-as-so-bad-its-good/561328.md?page=2)