# Is there something odd about the Elizabeth Smart case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234 "2003-03-14T01:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/221 "2003-03-21T03:20:25Z")
Originally posted by Tinkertoy: My former bosses husband was a deacon in the catholic church. He was also screwing three of his female employees. The priest advised her not to leave him. Far be it from me to defend the Catholic church, but the last time I looked, divorce was not allowed. Given that, what should the priest have advised the woman to do? if he encouraged the husband to conitue his infidelity, then that would be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/222 "2003-03-21T03:25:50Z")
Now that I think about it a little, it seem’s I find _all_ religions to have at least some beliefs of strange or extraordinary character. **Monty** , I give up on trying to reason with you. You’re _looking_ for bigotry, so of course you’ll find it. **Diane** , did you happen to notice that mangeorge and wearywitch are two separate people? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/223 "2003-03-21T04:00:58Z")
You are sorely mistaken, mangeorge. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/224 "2003-03-21T05:20:49Z")
I know next to nothing about Mormons (they are not common in Toronto), but one of my favorite writers of science fiction - Orson Scott Card - is apparently a member of that faith, and his writings are filled with quite interesing and sophisticated moral issues. So judging by my experience (one writer), I think Mormons are okay. 🙂 However, I realize that this a tiny sample size, and may not be representative. So I will adopt the same policy I usually do - judge each one by what _they_ do, not by their faith. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/225 "2003-03-21T05:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > **Uh, Walloon? You do realize that Barzee IS a kidnapper, don’t you?** What’s with the “uh”? 😕 Are you assuming that whatever Barzee or Mitchell says about themselves or each other is fact? They also believe that Mitchell is God’s prophet. An indictment contains allegations. _Courts_, not Barzee, not Mitchell, not the D.A.'s office, determine what is fact. The court will sift through the testimony of Barzee, Mitchell, and Smart, and other testimony and evidence, to determine what is fact and what is not. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/226 "2003-03-21T11:09:24Z")
**mixie -** [Ask the Mormon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171366) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/227 "2003-03-21T14:12:24Z")
mangeorge: Your early comment in this thread about Elizabeth Smart, “I hope she had fun,” proves that you are not trying to reason at all. That was almost as mean, vile, immature, and grotesque a comment as Logical Phallacy’s comment was. I am not looking for prejudice. I would rather that people such as you try to understand others and not make those crass remarks. Another crass remark of yours is the bit above about the church’s name. 'Tain’t my fault you don’t recall what Saint Paul called the members of Christ’s church. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/228 "2003-03-21T14:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Diane, did you happen to notice that mangeorge and wearywitch are two separate people? Uhhh, yeah, although your bigoted attitudes are pretty similar. There should have been an “and” in between. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/229 "2003-03-21T15:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s with the “uh”? What’s with the “uh” is this - Monty said (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Are you intentionally trying to post annoying and ridiculous comments are **do you not understand what the kidnapper already admitted to?** You responded (bolding again mine): > [@](#): > > If you have a citation for the **“admitted to” claim** , please give it. As far as I can see, the allegations in the indictment were **based on statements from Barzee, not Mitchell.** I said: > [@](#): > > Uh, Walloon? You do realize that Barzee IS a kidnapper, don’t you? Your words imply that the kidnapper Mitchell didn’t admit to anything and that statements were made by Barzee. True. I just brought it to your attention that statements WERE made by someone charged with **kidnapping** - Barzee. Whether or not her statements are backed by fact is yet to be determined. Again, your statement: > [@](#): > > If you have a citation for the **“admitted to” claim** , please give it. Citation for an admittance to sexual abuse by a kidnapper. > [@](#): > > Are you assuming that whatever Barzee or Mitchell says about themselves or each other is fact? They also believe that Mitchell is God’s prophet. Absolutely not, but that wasn’t the issue in this thread. You asked for a cite showing a statement a kidnapper made regarding sex abuse. You incorrectly implied that Barzee is not considered a kidnapper. She is and she made the statements. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/230 "2003-03-21T16:28:28Z")
Yo, mangeorge! Which misconceptions do you think my church has fostered. In other words, “Put up…” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/231 "2003-03-21T17:23:17Z")
In **mangeorge** ’s defense, **Monty** , that might be handled better in the “Ask the Mormon” thread linked above; it could further derail this already-badly-derailed thread. Because when I look at your question, I mentally respond, as an atheist, that _all_ churches foster a variety of misconceptions. I’m not sure this is the best place to open that can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/232 "2003-03-21T17:39:37Z")
That’s not what it’s about, Cervaise. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/233 "2003-03-22T00:15:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*mangeorge: Your early comment in this thread about Elizabeth Smart, “I hope she had fun,” proves that you are not trying to reason at all. That was almost as mean, vile, immature, and grotesque a comment as Logical Phallacy’s comment was. > > I am not looking for prejudice. I would rather that people such as you try to understand others and not make those crass remarks. Another crass remark of yours is the bit above about the church’s name. 'Tain’t my fault you don’t recall what Saint Paul called the members of Christ’s church. \*\* Vile? “Maybe she’s a good actor, I don’t know. But she doesn’t look like she’s been kidnapped and abused in any way for nine months. She looks healthy and happy, like she’s been away for the summer. In Europe, or at the coast, or something. Look at the pictures. Cover up the others in the photos, and look at just her face. She seems totally calm and sure of herself, and not at all troubled. **I’m an optimist, I guess. I hope she wasn’t harmed in any way. I hope she had fun**.” Crass? “My sample is a small group, Monty. I can’t take the time or trouble to deeply research every belief system I come into contact with. I have to go by what I see and what I’m told. So do most people. The misconceptions, some of fostered by the church itself, are not that great. **Simple explanation usually clears things right up. I’ll give you an easy one; Latter Day Saints. Do you have any idea how strange that sounds to many people? That fact doesn’t make us evil or contemptable.** Mormons are (were) secretive.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/234 "2003-03-22T01:34:55Z")
So, no answer, but merely a repetition of noise. That’s supposed to be meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/235 "2003-03-22T02:00:43Z")
What part of “That isn’t what I said” do you not understand? I’m off to the _Ask a Mormon_ thread, where replies start with something other than “What part of…”. Where I can reaffirm my belief that you do not typify the membership of the LDS. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/236 "2003-03-22T07:24:21Z")
The part where it is exactly what you said. In contrast to your postings in the “Ask a Mormon” thread, your postings here really do come across as I, along with Diane and at least one other poster, have described th em. And given how you describe the LDS church membership, maybe I should take that last comment of yours above as a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![blueraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@blueraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueraven)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/237 "2003-03-25T06:35:40Z")
Wow… I thought my friend, “wearywitch” was exaggerating… I’ll get into specifics (probably not) later, but Monty, dude… take a break! You’re everywhere on this m.b. Do you have a job, a family, or other interests? Sincerely, man, I worry about how much time you spend at your computer. Oh, by the way, “hello” everyone. I’m going back to “interests” - I’ll check back ocassionally maybe. I’m exhausted, really… by all this garbage. (No, really - read it from day one - it has spiraled down. It’s garbage.) ---
**Author:** ![blueraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@blueraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueraven)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/238 "2003-03-25T06:36:47Z")
ps - don’t bother checking my spelling - or making notations regarding my spelling. I know I can’t spell. ---
**Author:** ![wearywitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5f9b8f/32.png) [@wearywitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wearywitch)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/239 "2003-03-25T07:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blueraven \* > \*\*Wow… I thought my friend, “wearywitch” was exaggerating… I’ll get into specifics (probably not) later, but Monty, dude… take a break! You’re everywhere on this m.b. Do you have a job, a family, or other interests? Sincerely, man, I worry about how much time you spend at your computer. > > Oh, by the way, “hello” everyone. I’m going back to “interests” - I’ll check back ocassionally maybe. I’m exhausted, really… by all this garbage. > > (No, really - read it from day one - it has spiraled down. It’s garbage.) \*\* Blue - not a nice way to introduce yourself - not even remotely ‘delightsome’ - come away from here, and meet me back at “home”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/240 "2003-03-27T18:15:59Z")
And I find myself agreeing with wearywitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234.md?page=13)