# Is there something odd about the Elizabeth Smart case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234 "2003-03-14T01:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/81 "2003-03-16T17:55:01Z")
Oh, I don’t know…ask David Koresh or Maybe he’ll get some time at “the Walls” in Huntsville. I lived practically next door to it when I went to SHSU/Huntsville. I even met Koresh when he had his camp in Anderson County. My dad had a store near their camp. Seemed like nice folks, they were definitely a little strange though. As far as Emmanuel or whoever…he wouldn’t last five minutes walking around my hometown w/ his “disguise”. The good ol’ boys in blue around here would have had them downtown on the first day. Not to mention all the Bubbas…:eek: and what they’d do ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/82 "2003-03-16T18:10:42Z")
What’s starting to annoy me is this whole publicity. They’re just milking it. The family is constantly mugging for the cameras. Last night, I saw a clip on Entertainment Tonight as yet again they held a big press circle jerk. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/83 "2003-03-16T18:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*What’s starting to annoy me is this whole publicity. They’re just milking it. > > The family is constantly mugging for the cameras. Last night, I saw a clip on Entertainment Tonight as yet again they held a big press circle jerk. \*\* I did not see the clip you mention here. Do you think the intention is to: - thank the media - promote the Amber Alert bill - bring attention to what they view as “divine intervention” / “miracle” I think they seem a bit odd. But then, people may think I am odd. ---
**Author:** ![Radon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Radon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Radon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/84 "2003-03-16T19:00:24Z")
I think we can rest easy that her family and the local authorities are doing everything humanly possible for Elizabeth. If you want to spend you time usefully, find something to do at [this website](http://www.missingkids.com) ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/85 "2003-03-16T19:16:55Z")
It took a concerned, and nosy, stranger to get her home. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/86 "2003-03-16T22:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > **Sure they have. Whether you call her a child or a minor, the truth is the same. She lacks the ability to have consentual sex with an adult.** Correction: She lacks the _legal right_ to have consensual sex with an adult, in the state of Utah. In Colorado, Iowa, and South Carolina, as well as France, Italy, Sweden, and many other foreign countries, she does have that legal right. ([cite](http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)) Unless you know her personally, you don’t know a thing about whether she has the _ability_ to consent to sex. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/87 "2003-03-16T23:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Correction: She lacks the _legal right_ to have consensual sex with an adult, in the state of Utah. In Colorado, Iowa, and South Carolina, as well as France, Italy, Sweden, and many other foreign countries, she does have that legal right. ([cite](http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)) > > Unless you know her personally, you don’t know a thing about whether she has the _ability_ to consent to sex. \*\* I am not sure I understand what your point is. Are you saying that she is capable of having sex? I agree. My point is that regardless of whether or not she willingly had sex with this nut, she is a minor and the adult can and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. So in other words… she may be able to engage in sexual activity but the adult involved is engaging in criminal activity. As for the information on the site you linked to, I am shocked that it is legal in any state for an adult to have sex with a minor. I mean, this is not strange for say a 19 or 21 year old to have sex with a 17 year old. But in cases where there are greater age differences, I would have guessed that it was illegal. Oh well, learn something new now and then. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/88 "2003-03-16T23:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > chris young wrote: > > from day one i thought the uncle was shady why didnt he consent to a lie detector If lie detectors were foolproof then that would be shady. But lie detectors are (to quote my policemant friend) like voodoo. They work on the people who _believe_ they work. And if you’re really freaked out and emotional, they can work against you and make you “look” guilty even when you’re innocent. I recently was asked to take a lie detector. I was completely innocent; the people who asked me to take the test knew I was innocent, but for “appearance’s sake”, they wanted me to take the test anyway. I initially consented to it, but my afeforementioned policeman friend talked me out of it. He said I was too emotional. And I was. The whole thing was horrible, even though I had nothing to hide. I now know to not doubt or question people soley because they refuse to take lie detectors. Those things are scary. Mr2001: I’m not sure what your point is here, in this thread, in this context. Are you trying to imply that there is some possibility that this (probably very sheltered) 15-year-old Mormon girl may have _consented_ to have sex with her 49-year-old kidnapper? If not, what point are you trying to make on this thread, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/89 "2003-03-17T01:59:17Z")
Again, why are we assuming that she had sex with this guy. She may well have, but I think it’s a little premature to assume so. Or did I miss something? I would hope against hope that he _didn’t_ molest her. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/90 "2003-03-17T02:11:19Z")
I do remember the father answering a reporters questions on that subject. I don’t remember the details, but he said something like “what you would expect did happen”. He didn’t say “yes” but strongly suggested it. From what this guy’s family is saying about him, I’d be surprised if he didn’t have sex with E.S. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/91 "2003-03-17T03:49:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yosemitebabe_ > **Mr2001: I’m not sure what your point is here, in this thread, in this context. Are you trying to imply that there is some possibility that this (probably very sheltered) 15-year-old Mormon girl may have consented to have sex with her 49-year-old kidnapper? If not, what point are you trying to make on this thread, exactly?** First, let me say that I haven’t really been following this case, so I may be missing something. My knowledge is limited to a poster I saw in the SLC airport a few months ago, and what I’ve read in this thread, so anything I have to say about it should be taken with a big glass of “WTF is he talking about”. Now. I think it is possible that if sex happened, it was consensual. Elizabeth’s mention of “the girl who ran away” sounds like a Freudian slip to me, and I don’t think it’s far-fetched that a 15 year old girl might want to run away with an older man. **jacksen9** : The definition of “minor” varies greatly from place to place, especially when it relates to sex. From the chart I linked, you can see that 15 and 16 are more common ages of consent than 18, even in the US. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/92 "2003-03-17T04:51:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr2001 wrote: > Now. I think it is possible that if sex happened, it was consensual. Elizabeth’s mention of “the girl who ran away” sounds like a Freudian slip to me, and I don’t think it’s far-fetched that a 15 year old girl might want to run away with an older man. How do you define “consentual” in this case? She was carried away at knifepoint and her little sister was threatened at the time of her abduction. Do you still feel that a (probably sheltered) 15-year-old Mormon girl could still give _full_ consent (to her abductor) under these circumstances? And doesn’t it seem more likely that when Elizabeth said “the girl who ran away” she was merely repeating what her abductor kept on telling her? In other words, do you actually think that in this instance, there’s a possibility that there was: 1. No kidnapping (she “ran away”), 2. consentual sex (she made a completely adult decision to have sex with this 49-year-old man, who was emotionally her equal and she was in no way “submitting” to him). Do you really think this is possible in _this case_? ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/93 "2003-03-17T04:54:35Z")
**Mr2001** has already addressed **yosemitebabe’s** question, but had he not done so, I would have ventured the theory that he was addressing **jacksen9’s** statement: > [@](#): > > - She lacks the ability to have consentual sex with an adult.\* As he pointed out, she lacks the legal right to consent to sex. Whether she has the _capability_ to do so is another question which we aren’t really in a position to factually answer. That was the distinction I thought he was making. Take robbing banks, for example: People are _capable_ of robbing banks. It happens all the time. They aren’t legally allowed to, however, which is a different standard altogether. What I thought he was addressing was the difference between the two concepts, which (especially in the case of minors and sex) are very often treated as if they are the same thing. Thus, while no one is legally allowed to take her up on said consent, whether she is capable of giving it is (IMO, at least) entirely a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/94 "2003-03-17T05:32:10Z")
Something struck me a s really odd about the Dad’s reaction to finding Elizabeth, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it until just thinking about it now. He hasn’t seemed to show any _rage_ about this sleazeball that kidnapped, enslaved and probably raped his little girl for almost a year. After the intial relief and joy at finding Elizabeth alive, I would then expect her father to want to rip this “Emmanuel” guys nuts off with pliars. It’s all just happy, happy, joy, joy with no righteous papa bear blood lust. Maaybe he just hides it well, but why doesn’t he seem more pissed off? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/95 "2003-03-17T05:39:42Z")
It’s almost impossible to second guess how someone you don’t know might react. I wonder if perhaps he’s saving his rage for the privacy of his home. Or, it hasn’t quite sunk in yet. He probably kept on preparing (at least in the back of his mind) for the news of her death, and now she’s alive and at home. So he’s elated. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/96 "2003-03-17T06:00:42Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s all just happy, happy, joy, joy with no righteous papa bear blood lust. Maaybe he just hides it well, but why doesn’t he seem more pissed off? Do you think that if he was acting enraged and murderous, it would be helpful to Elizabeth? Would it help her get over what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/97 "2003-03-17T06:15:14Z")
**Thus, while no one is legally allowed to take her up on said consent, whether she is capable of giving it is (IMO, at least) entirely a different question.** Yeah, but there’s really no POINT to your point, is there? If you’ve got something to say, say it, stop blathering about semantics. My suspicion is that you are at some level seeking to establish that Smart was responsible for her own kidnaping, saying that she could have voluntarily left with her kidnaper, something she planned from the beginning. It is possible that this is the case, but given the facts, it’s very very very improbable. And you have to wonder about the motivations of anyone who is so ready to make this very improbable point with so little evidence to back it up. Maybe evidence will come forth that will make your point. I am not holding my breath, and I advise not to hold yours. ---
**Author:** ![Doonerak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Doonerak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doonerak)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/98 "2003-03-17T07:08:09Z")
To Eve and others: Picture this: A young girl who was being sexually and mentally abused in her own home…She is around people at school, maybe even at church. Does she “tell”? Why doesn’t she “tell”? Why doesn’t she escape? Why doesn’t she admit it is happening when confronted? This happens thousands of times every day. Why is it so hard to believe Elizabeth was any different in her captive situation. Think about it. Her dad is one weird dude! ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/99 "2003-03-17T10:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > > Now. I think it is possible that if sex happened, it was consensual. Elizabeth’s mention of “the girl who ran away” sounds like a Freudian slip to me, and I don’t think it’s far-fetched that a 15 year old girl might want to run away with an older man. In my mind, I could care less about whether or not she ran off with this nut ball and seduced him. He is the adult. He will be held accountable for the poor choices he made. I would want him prosecuted even if he didn’t rape her. Even if she ran away, he should have contacted the police or the parents. Are you saying that it is ok for a 40 year old to have sex with a 15 year old if the 15 year old is willing? If so…ugh, I think that is twisted. If not please forgive me for implying so. ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234/100 "2003-03-17T11:26:55Z")
This is one of the sickest fucking threads I have seen on here. You people are so wrong. I hope everyone in this thread that is trying to say this poor child or her family had anything to do with this come down with some horrible disease and have to suffer the rest of your life in agonizing pain. Talk about being “a jerk”. This takes the Jerk Award hands down. Fact: The worked there once for 5 hours on the roof. That is the extent of the families involvment in this case. They made a horrible error in judgement trying to help a guy that was homeless. Possible Fact: This guy also tried to kidnap her cousin. Apparently you jerks no nothing about brain-washing and how easy it is to do to a child. assholes. i hope you burn in hell. and if there is no such place then kindly douse yourselves in gas and light up. Mods, you can chastise me for my language or even say I’m being a jerk, but this thread is just wrong and you should not only lock it, but delete it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-something-odd-about-the-elizabeth-smart-case/161234.md?page=6)