# Is there such a thing as "too much milk"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2000, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197 "2000-07-20T03:18:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/21 "2000-07-20T22:08:01Z")
“If tobacco were ‘that bad,’ you wouldn’t need PETA to tell you. The FDA would have removed it from the marketplace long ago. Instead of worrying about tobacco, you should be worried about the defective judgment of PETA and others of this ilk.” Makes for an interesting re-write don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/22 "2000-07-20T22:30:04Z")
Well, yeah, adam, except tobacco has been “removed from the market” in a number of ways. They can’t advertise it on TV or radio, there are anti-tobacco campaigns funded by the government, manufacturers are required to put pretty bald “this stuff will kill you” warnings on it, and it is illegal to sell it to anyone under 16. I’m not one for blindly trusting the judgement of the FDA, but demonizing it doesn’t make any sense either. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/23 "2000-07-20T22:35:43Z")
Hmmmm. Appeals to authority? Tenuous comparisons? Slams at PETA? Methinks it’s time to move this guy over to Great Debates. **ChrisCTP** , I trust that your factual OP has been answered to your satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/24 "2000-07-21T00:39:12Z")
ChrisCTP wrote, in the OP: > [@](#): > > I guess because I figure the milkfat will fill her up instead of her supper, How about if she drinks nonfat (“skim”) milk? [/QUOTE] So, anyway…is there such a thing as too much milk? [/QUOTE] I drink about half a gallon of nonfat milk per day, on average. Then again, I’m 6 feet tall, which I’d guess is somewhat larger than the 5-year-old girl you babysit. ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/25 "2000-07-21T01:02:46Z")
I’m 5’ 4", 15 years old, and I weigh about a hundred pounds. I drink a gallon of whole milk a day, with almost no exception. How much of a health risk would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/26 "2000-07-21T02:59:14Z")
1. Milk is only about 20% protein, so a kid would have to drink 100% milk to get to any danger level, and it is argueable if that danger exists at the levels we are talking about. A single long-term study, without a control, is not worth much. Jello, you’re OK, don’t worry, assuming your diet is otherwise balanced. A vitamin wouldn’t hurt. 2. Yes, small kids get on those wierd “consume only one or 2 things” kicks. Is milk the best thing for this? No, but it is a lot better than many other liquid choices. Just be glad it is milk rather than something like sugar water, ie “juice boxes”, like Ellen said. Try to be reasonable, feed a “flintstones”, and remember they will grow out of it. 3. Yes, all the calcium in Milk is not usable. Neither is all the calcium in veggies. I notice that the vegans, when pointing out that protiens block some calcium in animal sources, never mention that oxalates block nearly 100% of the iron in veg sources. That’s one reason why iron-deficiency anemia is common amoung vegans. It’s ok, tho, vegans, just take you vitamin supps, especially iron for women, and B12 for all. 4. Absolutely, mothers milk is better for small kids. Nursing up to 1 year is a good idea, but after that, umm, well… I have seen mothers nurse their 4 years olds, and, well, umm… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/27 "2000-07-21T03:16:49Z")
I love it. I drink a ton of it (not so much in the summer, because it tastes really gross when it’s hot out). 1 percent, which isn’t bad. The thing that cracks me up about PETA is the whole thing that beer is less fattening than milk and all that. Um, yeah, then why isn’t it called a MILK belly? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/28 "2000-07-21T12:39:31Z")
also, in the link, McDougall points out flaws in Sears ‘Zone’ diet which is concidered a low carb diet by the mainstream but not a low carb diet from the low carb side. Atkins and Sears had a debate on, i think, WOR radio a few years ago. Atkins point was the zone’s biggest single component was carbs (40c 30p 30f) so how can that be low carb (the atkins diet is somewhere around 5 to 10% carbs est.). Was going to go further, but straying too far from the topic. back to milk - i think kids have more energy to burn and as such probally can take more sugar. I personally would try to convince her to take more water, maybe mixing water and milk. I would not use anything less then whole milk since fats are very important and skim milk is something like sugar water and probally produces an insulin spike. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/29 "2000-07-21T17:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > By the eighth decade of life people in affluent societies commonly lose about 30 percent of their kidney function (J Gerentol 31:155, 1976) So we’re talking about people in their 80s? Don’t a lot of organs lost some function by that point, just because of old age? > [@](#): > > 1. Absolutely, mothers (sic) milk is better for small kids. Nursing up to 1 year is a good idea, but after that, umm, well… I have seen mothers nurse their 4 years olds, and, well, umm… I believe (can’t find a site though) that the international average for breastfeeding is around 4–breast milk is better for babies/children overall and in many countries prevents illness through contaminated water. What’s the trouble with breastfeeding over one year? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/30 "2000-07-21T18:48:47Z")
Well it is not wrong, but some find it a little weird. I do not, but I find few things weird. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/31 "2000-07-21T21:29:51Z")
Guinastasia wrote: > [@](#): > > The thing that cracks me up about PETA is the whole thing that beer is less fattening than milk and all that. > Um, yeah, then why isn’t it called a MILK belly? I swear I’ve got one of those. I drink about 1/2 gallon of nonfat (formerly 2% lowfat) milk per day. I’ve never drunken beer. Yet, I’ve had a bulging tummy since I was 8. Incidentally, this bulging belly of mine was still bulging EVEN when I was _underweight_ a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![Krispy\_Original](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2000, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/32 "2000-07-22T03:41:20Z")
Are commercial dairy cattle given hormones? If they are, what might be the chance that those hormones are being passed on in the milk? And if they are being passed on in the milk and kids are drinking it, what might be the chance that those chemicals are affecting the health or development of the children in some way? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2000, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/33 "2000-07-22T06:04:12Z")
Krispy Original wrote: > [@](#): > > Are commercial dairy cattle given hormones? Some are, some aren’t. > [@](#): > > If they are, what might be the chance that those hormones are being passed on in the milk? Pretty high. > [@](#): > > And if they are being passed on in the milk and kids are drinking it, what might be the chance that those chemicals are affecting the health or development of the children in some way? Pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/34 "2000-07-23T19:02:22Z")
tracer, why pretty low? i’ve always been under the assumption that it would be higher. mainly for two reasons. first, how readily drugs and other substances pass from a mother’s milk to her baby second, the fact that our bodies respond to chemicals that are not indiginous to the body, but that are the same basic shape as our hormones. i know that both are not very well founded. is it true that the hormones that the kids are drinking have little or no effect? ---
**Author:** ![hedra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@hedra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hedra)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/35 "2000-07-24T16:33:36Z")
Um, more to the point, not how fast it gets from mother’s milk to baby, but how fast, how much, and WHETHER it passes from mother’s bloodstream to mother’s milk. Ingestion is ingestion after that. The process for substances passing into human milk is pretty complex - pH, whether it is a fatty substance, and a variety of other factors affect what passes and what doesn’t. I’m sure the same issues exist for cattle. It has been a while since I read the general data on what actually passes through, but if I recall right, most hormones do NOT pass through, but some do, and some do in limited quantity (such that the amount is stable no matter how much mom is making). Antibiotics generally DO pass through. Prescription drugs of various sorts have various levels of excretion into milk. Most don’treach serum level (bloodstream level), but a few seem to concentrate. Same for nutrients - if you overdose on your vitamins, in most cases the impact on the vitamin level in the milk is NONE. But a few DO end up concentrated. One of the things that people forget is the whole serum level thing. If you give someone a dose of antibiotics, then take a serum sample (blood-test, say), the concentration of the substance is WAY lower than a prescription dose, and they may also already be metabolized into a differnt form - which then may or may not break down further in the digestive system if consumed in the form of milk. Given that milk-levels may be well under serum level, and that you are then using a very limited amount as input (in the milk, in this case), most impacts will probably be subclinical, if evident at all. Most drugs require a threshold to SEE any impact (though there may be some impact technically, it isn’t enough to cause a change in development, cellular process, or whatever). You could be eating a measurable amount of all sorts of things every day, and never see a direct impact - that’s why we have such redundant development processes (IMHO), to keep the minor impacts from becoming significant. You still have to figure out what level actually ends up in the milk in the first place. And you can’t generalize AT ALL - you have to test it, and see if it actually does come through. Antibiotics DO come through. But the issue there is creating resistant strains of bacteria by exposing them to low levels of the antibiotic on a regular basis. overall, it is amazing how little impact you can have on milk content. You can be damn near starving to death and your milk quality will be damn near as good as a woman who is on a well-balanced diet (with only a few nutrients out of balance and the rest identical between sources)- it doesn’t make sense, but it has been tested again and again. Anyway, this is by way of saying, ‘Be careful not to assume that milk production is a simple excretory process - it isn’t GIGO, it is a very selective production method.’ For the OP question, yes, most kids go through cycles of food ‘kicks,’ and they do self-regulate to a fair degree. But they are also a bundle of obsessive/compulsive bahaviors, and can easily develop habits that counteract the natural balancing system. (and if it bugs mom or other grownups, all the better!) Milk I think is slightly better than juice, but I agree that overdosing on any liquid is a matter for concern - not panic, but concern. I think the general rule I was given was to average the consumption over 2-3 months, and see where you ended up. My son will eat 60% PB&J for 6 weeks, but then he’ll be off onto something else. Like broccoli. I keep giving him a vitamin, and wait hopefully for the day when he’ll eat something different two days in a row. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/36 "2000-07-24T19:42:28Z")
Here’s an article at [Vegsource.com](http://Vegsource.com): [Sorting through the Calcium Myths](http://www.vegsource.com/articles/calcium_update.htm). The dariy industry has us in a panic about osteoporois. Do you know what the worst thing you can do for osteoporosis is? Drink milk! All of the animal protien in the milk leeches out more calcium than the milk puts in, creating a net drain of calcium. In fact, the WHO recommends an RDA of 400 mg of calcium, and people all over the world are getting this much calcium and avoiding osteoporosis. Here in the U-S, we get an average of 1400 mg/day, mostly from milk, and osteoporosis is an epidemic! From the article: “…the National Dairy Council funded a study which ended up returning results showing that the more milk women drank, the more bone loss they experienced.” The [Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine](http://www.pcrm.org/health/Info_on_Veg_Diets/milk.html) (in the article cited in the link) concludes: There is no nutritional requirement for dairy products, and there are serious problems that can result from the proteins, sugar, fat, and contaminants in milk products. Therefore, the following recommendations are offered: 1.Breast-feeding is the preferred method of infant feeding. As recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics, whole cow’s milk should not be given to infants under one year of age. 2.Parents should be alerted to the potential risks to their children from cow’s milk use. 3.Cow’s milk should not be required or recommended in government guidelines. 4.Government programs, such as school lunch programs and the WIC program, should be consistent with these recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/37 "2000-07-24T19:46:21Z")
Here’s an article from a decidedly non-vegetarain site, Microsoft: [Got Osteoporosis? Maybe all that milk you’ve been drinking is to blame](http://slate.msn.com/Features/osteo/osteo.asp) An excerpt: Strange, then, that most of the world’s people, who rarely if ever drink milk and who get just a small percentage of the calcium we are told is vital, have not devolved into boneless heaps of protoplasm. Even stranger, in many of these dairy-avoiding countries, people get through life with far fewer of the age-related hip fractures that plague Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/38 "2000-07-24T19:52:20Z")
ELLEN, both those sites are pretty clearly biased in favor of vegetarianism; I therefore view them with skepticism. Do you have any sources that are not so far over to one side – say, a medical study or something? I put in “milk nuitrition osteoporosis” in a Google search and got thousands of hits liking low calcium to bone loss, and listing dairy products as the best source of calcium. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/39 "2000-07-24T19:57:17Z")
C’mon, Ellen, you can’t selectively quote an article to make it appear it supports your position when actually it doesn’t. That same article says: > [@](#): > > This paradox has led **a small number of researchers** to become dairy doubters, questioning the wisdom of the calcium recommendations of the public health establishment. and > [@](#): > > There are dozens of clinical experiments showing that high doses of calcium either arrest bone loss or even build bone in older women. In other words, that article does nothing more than note that a debate over the efficacy of milk exists; it doesn’t support your position in particular, and you shouldn’t quote it as if it does. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2000, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197/40 "2000-07-24T20:44:53Z")
Besides, wasn’t Milk Causes Osteoporosis one of the arguements PETA used in their Got Beer Campaign? Please! I’m so sick of hearing that! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-a-thing-as-too-much-milk/26197.md?page=3)