# Is there such thing as American patriotism? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707 "2014-03-02T22:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/21 "2014-03-03T02:54:48Z")
The OP has a history of writing inane arguments like [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=717186) that claims the U.S. in both the Korean and Vietnam wars were an imperialistic attempt at genocide. Consider your source here. I am a European American as well as part Native American. My European ancestors that I got my last name from came over 400 years ago. There is no other homeland for me. I grew up in the American South and the same is true for black Southerners. They have been here since well before the U.S. was a country. In the meantime, I they invented most modern styles of music including jazz, blues, rock and roll and had an an extreme cultural influence in different areas like cuisine. There is no other homeland for them either. If you want to see an example of U.S. patriotism, you have it right here. I love the U.S.and think it has been the greatest country in the world despite some recent political squabbles. Only countries like Canada who also depend on the U.S. for their survival have a decent claim to the title. Even China couldn’t have grown as much as it has in recent years without the U.S. In short, we have another failure of an OP from **CCitizen**. I have no idea if he is really Kim Jong Un using an alias but the general style and (lack of) logic are the same. That said, [let’s bow our head and listen to this inspirational anthem](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/22 "2014-03-03T03:11:31Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I am Jewish – I never was Russian and never became an American. If you are Jewish, you should be thrilled that the U.S. exists. The U.S. has more Jews than any other country in the world including Israel. The 3rd and 4th countries aren’t even close and the population of Jews drops off very rapidly from there. > **[Jewish population by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country)** > > The percentage of the eligible Jewish population that is living in each country (top 13, 2018) > As of 2023,\[update\] the world's core Jewish population (those identifying as Jews above all else) was estimated at 15.7 million, which is approximately 0.2% of the 8 billion worldwide population. Israel hosts the largest core Jewry in the world with 7.2 million, followed by the United States with 5.7 million. Other countries with core Jewries above 100,000 include France (440,000), Canada (398,000)... Jewish people have been given a home in the U.S. since the beginning and have been disproportionately influential in its affairs. I am not sure why you would attack the U.S. when it is the one place most immune to antisemitism today. I know for a fact that many Jews consider this their homeland as well. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/23 "2014-03-03T11:39:15Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I do not think so – there is no American nation Ah, you may have missed it. It’s over here. Between Mexico and Canada, stretching from sea to shining sea. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/24 "2014-03-03T15:52:38Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Ah, you may have missed it. It’s over here. Between Mexico and Canada, stretching from sea to shining sea. Actually, there are many American nations. In North America has the US and Canada; in Central America there is Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras and Panama. South America includes Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, Chile, Uruguay, Suriname, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, Guyana, Paraguay, French Guiana and the Falkand Islands (Maldives). Just to clarify, which American nation(s) have no patriotism? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/25 "2014-03-03T17:00:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Certainly; but they are regarded as inferior, followers of “false religions” and often essentially as traitors. Atheists of course are regarded as outright demonic. And yet, [54% of Americans would vote for an atheist President,](http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx) (and 58% would vote for a Muslim). That’s not consistent with atheists being regarded as demonic. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/26 "2014-03-03T18:26:19Z")
I’ve been reading up on Pow-Wows–celebrations by Native Americans and members of the First Nations. They are often inter-tribal & encourage other folks to attend most events. But there are some points of etiquette; one must respect the color-guard that begins the event, led by proud veterans. Here’s one that’s [a bit much](http://mvprogress.com/2010/11/10/moapa-paiutes-host-veterans%E2%80%99-pow-wow/)–but definitely patriotic: > [@](#): > > This year’s Veterans Princess was Sierra Reel who performed a beautiful Native “National Anthem” with a small drum. Bea Vigil, a member of the Apache Tribe in Las Vegas, brought tears to the eyes of some as she acted out in sign language the verses to Lee Greenwood’s “God Bless the USA.” I’m told my father was beat up as a kid because his parents were immigrants. However, he served in WWII & was called back for the Cold War. Didn’t survive that one–SAC bombers sometimes crash. But I’ve got the flag he wore to his wake at home. It’s red, white & blue. Personally, I’m not a flag waver. If somebody wants to burn the flag, it’s a free country. But people descended from more recent immigrants–or from those who predated European immigrants & suffered for it–regard themselves as Americans. Not that it’s a perfect country, but it has its points… OP: Where do you come from? Where do you live? How old are you? \*Pedantic note: \*Central America is a subset of North America. And Mexico is generally not considered part of Central America. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/27 "2014-03-04T00:02:09Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Actually, there are many American nations. In North America has the US and Canada; in Central America there is Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras and Panama. Mexico isn’t part of North America? That’s, um, odd. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/28 "2014-03-04T04:32:57Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Most Catholic and Orthodox Christians do not consider Protestants Christian. You are utterly wrong about that, by the way. Although this says nothing about patriotism of course. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/29 "2014-03-04T11:29:17Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I do not think so – there is no American nation and no American religion, and thus any patriotism is superficial. American Indians and African Americans have nothing to be grateful for to USA. Many ``European Americans" and Asian Americans are descendents of recent immigrants or are immigrants themselves – they would relate much more to their country of origin then to USA. While I disagree with what you’re saying, what’s up with the group you’re skipping? I mean, for the sake of argument say American Indians and African-Americans are off the table, as are _“descendants of recent immigrants or immigrants themselves”_. Again, I think you’re demonstrably wrong – given, y’know, what they say and how they act, especially when I was serving alongside 'em in the military – but if you’re right, then what about folks who aren’t (a) recent immigrants, or (b) descendants of recent immigrants, or (c) African-American, or (d) American Indians? > [@](#): > > I am Jewish – I never was Russian and never became an American. I am Jewish; never was Russian; am American; anecdote, plural, data, et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/30 "2014-03-04T13:31:02Z")
I never really understood patriotism, but you can’t say the USA _doesn’t have it_. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/31 "2014-03-04T14:16:29Z")
OP : if there’s no American patriotism, what are all those bald eagle spangled, star feathered banners and lapel pins all about ? [QUOTE=Human Action] And yet, [54% of Americans would vote for an atheist President,](http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx) (and 58% would vote for a Muslim). That’s not consistent with atheists being regarded as demonic. [/QUOTE] It is, if 54% of Americans are down with demons. And who wouldn’t ? Demons are fucking metal. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/32 "2014-03-04T14:37:02Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Mexico isn’t part of North America? That’s, um, odd. My bad, but the point was that US citizens often say “America” and mean only the USA. America is much bigger than the US. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/33 "2014-03-04T15:21:55Z")
Of course there’s an “American nation”, albeit one with multiple ethnicities, none of which are bound to any other nation. For example, I’m a white American, and about as much of a mongrel ethnicity-wise as it is possible to be. I have German (Pennsylvania Dutch as well as Texas German), British (all sorts- Scots-Irish, English, Scottish) and French ancestors. These ancestors lived all over the map- Pennsylvania, Texas, S. Carolina, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Tennessee, and probably several other places I’m not aware of. They immigrated to the US anywhere between the 1770s up through the mid-19th century. I’m sure that many Black americans have equally or even more murky ancestry in terms of where and when their ancestors came from. But we’re all Americans. We all identify with the United States of America as our nationality and our homeland. I feel far more kinship with some New Englander up in the tip of Maine or some Hispanic guy out in Arizona somewhere than I do with anyone in the UK, France or Germany, where my ancestors left more than 150 years ago. We may have our issues internally, but we’re all cut from a lot of the same cloth, and claiming that we can’t be patriotic is absurd. That’s the amazing thing about the US; we’re not defined by an ethnicity or membership in a “people” like other places. We’re something more interesting and ultimately greater IMO; some of us are born into it, and others come here to be part of it, and “it” is a nationality that’s open to all; recent citizens from anywhere in the world are just as “American” as I am once they say that oath, even if they came from elsewhere, and I’m proud to count them as my countrymen. That’s the thing- I think it’s a wonderful thing when people want to come here and be American and become part of the culture, including whatever makes their original land unique- we’re all better off for it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/34 "2014-03-04T15:29:42Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > My bad, but the point was that US citizens often say “America” and mean only the USA. America is much bigger than the US. It’s commonly understood to mean the US in context. And not just in the US but in other countries. And I’m pretty sure you know that already. That may rub some people the wrong way, but Americans (and yes, I mean people in the US) can’t control how people in other countries speak. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/35 "2014-03-04T15:44:15Z")
Here’s a patriot: > [@John Winger (Stripes](#): > > Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell’s the matter with you?! Stupid! We’re all very different people. We’re not Watusi. We’re not Spartans. We’re Americans, with a capital ‘A’, huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We’re the underdog. We’re mutts! Here’s proof: his nose is cold! But there’s no animal that’s more faithful, that’s more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw Old Yeller? Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end? [raises his hand] Nobody cried when Old Yeller got shot? I’m sure. [hands are reluctantly raised] I cried my eyes out. [even more hands go up] So we’re all dogfaces. We’re all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We’re mutants. There’s something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us! We’re soldiers, but we’re American soldiers! We’ve been kickin’ ass for 200 years! We’re 10 and 1! Now we don’t have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don’t have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud. Fall in! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/36 "2014-03-04T15:48:25Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > There may be some superficial patriotism in USA, but in reality there is no such thing as an American nation – there is a conglomerate of people of different backgrounds and religions. > > Moreover, the worst war for USA was the Civil War. Totally wrong, and So what? Boy, when the OP is wrong, he is **wrong**. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/37 "2014-03-04T15:48:50Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > My bad, but the point was that US citizens often say “America” and mean only the USA. Probably 99+% of the people in the world say “America” meaning only the USA. > [@](#): > > America is much bigger than the US. If you define “America” as the American continent(s). Which most people don’t, as there are good alternatives (Western Hemisphere, North America, South America, names of individual countries, etc.) depending on what one wishes to refer to, which have the advantage of not lending themselves to confusion with the common, widespread, and longstanding practice of calling the U.S. “America.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/38 "2014-03-04T15:52:15Z")
USA! USA! USA! Someone had to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/39 "2014-03-04T16:01:25Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Probably 99+% of the people in the world say “America” meaning only the USA. > > If you define “America” as the American continent(s). Which most people don’t, as there are good alternatives (Western Hemisphere, North America, South America, names of individual countries, etc.) depending on what one wishes to refer to, which have the advantage of not lending themselves to confusion with the common, widespread, and longstanding practice of calling the U.S. “America.” Interesting. In my travels in Central and South America I heard many people take offense to “America” meaning the USA. It’s generally more a statement on US politics than geography. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/40 "2014-03-04T17:00:34Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Interesting. In my travels in Central and South America I heard many people take offense to “America” meaning the USA. It’s generally more a statement on US politics than geography. YMMV. I had this pounded into my head when I was taking classes in International Business in college. According to the professor (and the textbooks), many residents of Central and South American countries consider their countries to be part of America (and they make the distinction by referring to our country as the United States, rather than just “America”). While I was in college, I found myself on a broken-down bus in the middle of nowhere in Wisconsin, with two exchange students (OK, fine, they were also hot babes) from Argentina. They were actually rather impressed that I understood this particular point of terminology, as nearly every American (that is, citizen of the US) that they’d encountered had no idea about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707.md?page=3)