# Is there such thing as American patriotism? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707 "2014-03-02T22:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/41 "2014-03-04T17:03:50Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Many ``European Americans" and Asian Americans are descendents of recent immigrants or are immigrants themselves I have to go back 3 generations to find an ancestor who wasn’t born in the U.S. – my paternal grandmother’s parents emigrated from Ireland at the end of the 19th century, a couple of years before my grandmother was born. The other three lines of my ancestry (my paternal grandfather, and both of my maternal grandparents) have been in the U.S. for at least 4 generations, and one line arrived in the U.S. in the 1600s. Do I still qualify as “a descendent of recent immigrants” in your mind? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/42 "2014-03-04T17:08:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I have to go back 3 generations to find an ancestor who wasn’t born in the U.S. – my paternal grandmother’s parents emigrated from Ireland at the end of the 19th century, a couple of years before my grandmother was born. The other three lines of my ancestry (my paternal grandfather, and both of my maternal grandparents) have been in the U.S. for at least 4 generations, and one line arrived in the U.S. in the 1600s. Do I still qualify as “a descendent of recent immigrants” in your mind? I did not say all ``European Americans" are descendants of recent immigrants. Just most. Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. And I will never become an American. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/43 "2014-03-04T17:12:44Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Ah, you may have missed it. It’s over here. Between Mexico and Canada, stretching from sea to shining sea. Not a nation but a conglomeration of people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/44 "2014-03-04T17:17:56Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Not a nation but a conglomeration of people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds. What an interesting and useless definition. What point is there in using a definition nobody else uses? Or making a distinction with no practical difference? ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/45 "2014-03-04T17:35:46Z")
[Patriotism: noun. love that people feel for their country.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patriotism) Doesn’t say anything about ethnicity or religion. Interesting side note: over 230 million people live outside their home country. A number that would be the 5th largest country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/46 "2014-03-04T17:38:29Z")
I think CCitizen has brought a refreshing new style to this board (which boringly insisted on cites and accuracy.) I’m converted! :smack: > [@CCitizen](#): > > Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. And I will never become an American. There is **no such thing** as ‘Jewish’, so you can’t be. Also under the the Immigration Act of 1924 (Johnson–Reed Act) and later related legislation, **you are legally American**. > [@CCitizen](#): > > I am Jewish and there are many Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists in USA. Most Catholic and Orthodox Christians do not consider Protestants Christian. You are **not** Jewish (see above for proof.) Following the Council of Trent (1545-63) the Catholic Church stated that ‘ **all Protestants are Catholics and our Brothers in Christ** ’. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/47 "2014-03-04T17:48:58Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. And I will never become an American. Good for you. My whole family has made the transition. I can’t say my ancestors ever considered themselves Russian or Polish, but my family all are Americans. Your whole arguments seems to be “Well, I’m not feeling it” - which is pretty unpersuasive in the face of deep fried Twinkies, the Ford F-650 pickup truck, and Honey Boo Boo. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/48 "2014-03-04T17:53:02Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I did not say all ``European Americans" are descendants of recent immigrants. Just most. At what point, by your idiosyncratic terminology, does it stop being ‘recent’? > [@](#): > > Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. And I will never become an American. Uh, okay. Again, some people who are Jewish also consider themselves American; if you don’t happen to be one of 'em, that’s, um, duly noted, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/49 "2014-03-04T18:02:06Z")
At least one ancestor of mine fought with George Washington for our independence from England during the American Revolution. There were Americans even before the nation was formally created for them, and he was one of them. Saying there is no American nation is like saying there is no such thing as soup, just a bunch of chopped vegetables in some flavored water. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/50 "2014-03-04T18:09:23Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I did not say all ``European Americans" are descendants of recent immigrants. Just most. > > Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. And I will never become an American. Shouldn’t you move to Israel, then? If that is the _only_ way you identify yourself… A Jewish friend–quite proud of her religion–moved to Israel for a while. She didn’t care for it. So she’s back to being a proud Jewish-American. In Texas, no less! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/51 "2014-03-04T18:35:24Z")
Words have meanings, and those meanings are determined by usage, not by dictators. Just because you don’t agree with a definition, that doesn’t mean that the word suddenly changes meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/52 "2014-03-04T18:38:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Shouldn’t you move to Israel, then? If that is the _only_ way you identify yourself… Wanna bet there is no such nation as Israel either? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/53 "2014-03-04T18:48:51Z")
Dear CC; In apology for America failing you, I will take donations to buy you a bus ticket to the nearest port. Your selection of destination and cost of passage are totally up to you, because I can tell how proud (of yourself) you are and wouldn’t want to impede on that. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/54 "2014-03-04T19:07:08Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Not a nation but a conglomeration of people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds. By that definition, there’s no France either - nothing but a conglomeration of Gallo-Romans, Visigoths, Algerians, Bretons, Huns and Germans, Vikings and ironically enough, Americans (since 1944 at least ;)). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/55 "2014-03-04T19:14:02Z")
> [@HipGnosis](#): > > Dear CC; > In apology for America failing you, I will take donations to buy you a bus ticket to the nearest port. > Your selection of destination and cost of passage are totally up to you, because I can tell how proud (of yourself) you are and wouldn’t want to impede on that. I’m in for $5. $10 if he leaves tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/56 "2014-03-04T19:14:47Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I did not say all ``European Americans" are descendants of recent immigrants. Just most. > > Even though my ancestors lived in Russia a long time we were never Russian – we are Jewish. **And I will never become an American.** Emphasis added. Somehow, I think we’ll all be able to deal with that. It will be difficult, but we’ll manage. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/57 "2014-03-04T19:19:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > And yet, [54% of Americans would vote for an atheist President,](http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/Atheists-Muslims-Bias-Presidential-Candidates.aspx) (and 58% would vote for a Muslim). That’s not consistent with atheists being regarded as demonic. Perhaps we have underestimated the the demon demographic. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/58 "2014-03-04T21:56:43Z")
> [@HipGnosis](#): > > Dear CC; > In apology for America failing you, I will take donations to buy you a bus ticket to the nearest port. > Your selection of destination and cost of passage are totally up to you, because I can tell how proud (of yourself) you are and wouldn’t want to impede on that. America has not failed me – we can say that while most countries are the home for one nation/culture, USA is a home for everyone on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/59 "2014-03-04T22:14:13Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > America has not failed me – we can say that while most countries are the home for one nation/culture, USA is a home for everyone on Earth. As Americans. The vast majority of the people in the US disagree with you; so why should we take anything you say seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707/60 "2014-03-04T22:26:55Z")
This is all pretty much true of China, too, which I imagine the CC doesn’t count as the same thing. China is a hodge-podge of dozens of ethnicities, religions, and cultures, all mixed up over the centuries. But somehow, it’s still a “nation” or a “culture” while the US isn’t. Funny how American exceptionalism works sometimes. Maybe because all those Chinese folk look the same or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-such-thing-as-american-patriotism/682707.md?page=4)