# Is there truly a transcendent pizza above other pizzas or pizza is really... just pizza? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782 "2017-02-01T22:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/41 "2017-02-04T00:48:22Z")
Absolutely. I have loved Chicago Style (Connies, Edwardos, Gino’s East, and all their ilk), I have loved dozens of NY/Brooklyn pie places, but when I had the pizza at Di Matteo and two others in Naples, it was truly unique and fantastic. They only had two flavors, the pizza cooked for 43-45 seconds and was on our table within 10 seconds thereafter. They were not mind blowing meals, but that was really fantastic pizza and experience. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/42 "2017-02-04T02:01:33Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > I had the pizza at Di Matteo and two others in Naples, it was truly unique and fantastic. They only had two flavors, the pizza cooked for 43-45 seconds and was on our table within 10 seconds thereafter. The high temperature and brief cooking time in those neapolitan wood-fired pizza ovensreally do make a huge difference. 800 F on the oven floor and around 1000 degrees F in the dome does wonders for the product, truly. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/43 "2017-02-04T02:46:22Z")
There are some foods where the difference between mediocre and transcendental is real. Pizza is one, sushi another. Using wood or coal at high temperatures, using thinnish crusts quickly charred on the surface, quality olive oil and artisanal cheese, fresh tomato sauce and herbs… It adds up. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/44 "2017-02-04T03:20:57Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > When I was about 18 or 19, I ate pizza at a pizza place in Italy. I’m going to go ahead and assume that it was the same kind of pizza that Italians have been making for centuries and not the Americanized version. Anyway, it was heavenly beyond description. The dough melted in my mouth. The cheese was pure, liquid yum. The sauce was more flavorful than any tomato sauce I’ve ever had in the US. The herbs and spices and such tasted like they were just cut from the garden not ten minutes before they wound up on my pizza. Yes. The pizza in Italy is very good. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/45 "2017-02-04T14:40:48Z")
The place listed as the best pizza in Nebraska is a good choice. La Casa is really great. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/46 "2017-02-04T14:54:52Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > The high temperature and brief cooking time in those neapolitan wood-fired pizza ovensreally do make a huge difference. 800 F on the oven floor and around 1000 degrees F in the dome does wonders for the product, truly. Indeed. Obviously, it depends on the style you’re going for, but Neapolitan pizza is very basic in its ingredients. The tomato “sauce” is usually nothing but crushed tomatoes with a bit of salt. It’s all in the quality of the dough, the tomatoes, and the cheese. Heck, a pizza marinara won’t even have the cheese, just the tomato and a bit of oregano, olive oil, and garlic. Yet, done right, it can be sublime. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/47 "2017-02-04T15:06:38Z")
In my experience there is okay pizza and good pizza. I’ve never had amazing pizza that I recall. Good pizza would include places like pizza king, giordanos, a few places that sell new york style slices (large and flat), etc. Okay would be almost everywhere else I’ve eaten (dozens if not a hundred different brands of pizzas). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/48 "2017-02-04T15:09:00Z")
> [@astro](#): > > From the page for that restaurant QtM cited. > > [THE BEST PIZZERIA IN EVERY STATE IN AMERICA](https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/the-best-pizza-in-every-state-in-america) Eh. I live in Indiana and have eaten at Jockamo’s upper crust. I would rate Jockamos in the lower 30% of restaurant pizzas I’ve ever eaten. I wasn’t impressed at all. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/49 "2017-02-04T15:29:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > In my experience there is okay pizza and good pizza. I’ve never had amazing pizza that I recall. I agree. I’ve never had anything _inedible_ (meaning, not spoiled, undercooked, etc.) Stuff like Little Caesar’s $5 things aren’t _bad_, they’re just pretty bland. And it’s not like chains are somehow unique; there’s a bakery which does pizza a lot of my co-workers love for some reason. My opinion of it is it’s no better than a hot & ready; just a slab of meh bread, with minimal tasteless sauce, a thin layer of meh cheese. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/50 "2017-02-04T16:52:55Z")
I will mention Twin Trees in Central NY. There are 3 or 4 satellite locations, too. They cut the pizza in long rectangular strips, not wedges, but it’s the pizza that is so much better than any others. A thin but chewy crust, tons of cheese, fresh tasting spices, olive oil, tangy sauce. Toppings are all scrumptious. It is to a mundane chain pizza as a diamond is to cubic zirconia. (there’s a time and place for both in the world, but really, the difference is remarkable.) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/51 "2017-02-04T18:24:14Z")
Does _anybody_ prefer their pizza cut in anything but wedges? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/52 "2017-02-04T18:34:13Z")
What kind of pizza? If I’m having a crispy crust pie in a bowling alley, then “tavern-cut” is preferred. Sicilian needs to be rectangular. I’d sell your mother to Aldebarian slavers for the pizza at a sadly now closed dive called The Mug, which cut their pizzas with non-rectangular right-angle cuts. (One cut across the equator, spin the pie 90 degrees and cut into 2-2 1/2" inch wide strips.) The rest can be wedges. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/53 "2017-02-04T18:54:04Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Does _anybody_ prefer their pizza cut in anything but wedges? I like deep-pan pizza cut into squares. And, I always order my wedge-cut pizza “double cut.” It’s a cheap way to get twice the pizza. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/54 "2017-02-04T20:47:31Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > For me it’s Campisi’s here in Dallas. > Their sauce is divine and their crust is like none other I’ve ever seen. > I’m not always in the mood for pizza; but I AM always in the mood for Campisi’s! I actually think I Fratelli and Atomic Pie (founded by a bunch of ex-Campisi’s guys) are better for that kind of pizza than Campisi’s. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/55 "2017-02-04T21:06:59Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Does _anybody_ prefer their pizza cut in anything but wedges? As mentioned above, depends on the pizza. Chicago-style thin crust (and much of the thin crust around the Midwest) better lends itself to a square “tavern cut.” The crust tends to be crispier and crackier than something like a New York style pizza or a Neapolitan pie. A couple times I’ve see the variation **silenus** describes where they come out in strips [like this](http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/02/johns-pizzeria-pizza-munster-indiana-review.html). Cutting it into wedges just would seem really odd to me. Sicilian and thick pan styles (like Detroit) are generally rectangular. When I make my own pizza, I tend to use a tavern cut, since I typically do a crispier style of pizza at home. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/56 "2017-02-04T22:59:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I actually think I Fratelli and Atomic Pie (founded by a bunch of ex-Campisi’s guys) are better for that kind of pizza than Campisi’s. Wow, I did know this was a thing. I will definitely be checking these guys out in the near future. Thank you for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/57 "2017-02-05T00:10:37Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > I like deep-pan pizza cut into squares. > > And, I always order my wedge-cut pizza “double cut.” It’s a cheap way to get twice the pizza. What is double cut and how could it possibly double the size of the pizza? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/58 "2017-02-05T00:13:38Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What is double cut and how could it possibly double the size of the pizza? 😕 Very complicated physics. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/59 "2017-02-05T01:10:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Eh, close enough. If Detroit style pizza is on the list, then a tomato pie would qualify, I should think. Same with Chicago style pizza (although the Illinois winner is not a deep dish pizza.) > > ETA: I mean, come on, who would not identify [this](https://roadfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/rfl_15382.jpg) as a type of pizza, name notwithstanding. But what’s a “tomato pie”? Maybe we should ask **Loach**. Your linked image looks like a pizza to me, but Google Images shows things that should qualify as pizza, and things that look like, uh, pie made from tomatoes. A Detroit style pizza is unarguably pizza; but depending on what a tomato pie really is, I’m not so sure. > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Does _anybody_ prefer their pizza cut in anything but wedges? While one _could_ cut a square, Detroit style into triangles (not wedges), why would you want to? You’d be losing the best part: the fried cheese “crust.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782/60 "2017-02-05T02:08:13Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > But what’s a “tomato pie”? Maybe we should ask **Loach**. Your linked image looks like a pizza to me, but Google Images shows things that should qualify as pizza, and things that look like, uh, pie made from tomatoes. When I think of “tomato pie,” I actually think of something other than the Trenton tomato pie. I think of something that looks like a Sicilian pizza–something [like this](http://lickmyspoon.com/recipes/tomato-pie/). Then there’s the Trenton tomato pie, and then actual pies made from tomatoes. The “tomato pie” in the best pizzas in the US link is of the Trenton tomato pie variety, and the image I linked to is an image of the tomato pie from the restaurant mentioned in the article under “New Jersey.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-truly-a-transcendent-pizza-above-other-pizzas-or-pizza-is-really-just-pizza/778782.md?page=4)