# Is there X amount of mass shootings that would change gun supporters' minds, or is that the wrong way to think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380 "2022-05-13T19:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/183 "2022-05-16T17:57:44Z")
And once again gun owners change the discussion. Am I the worst person to make a point? Maybe…probably. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/184 "2022-05-16T18:30:46Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The simple reality is the anti-gun crowd aren’t interested in a serious dialogue, they don’t like gun owners and they want you to know it. There’s no need for such broad accusations when we have, in this very thread, an attempt - a _step_ - towards serious dialogue. **Velocity** wrote that he is “in favor of a 2nd-Amendment repeal and banning/confiscating of most guns”. But the topic he started isn’t about that, it’s about understanding gun supporters. Specifically whether gun supporters believe X amount of mass shootings would change their minds. I note that you, **Martin\_Hyde** , haven’t directly answered the question _du jour_. I suggest that the question has been answered in the negative, and invite @Velocity to return if he has any doubt left in his mind. Please find my summary of the members of the board and their relevant opinions below. I apologize if I missed or misinterpreted anybody. **No amount of mass shootings would change gun supporters’ minds** > [@Railer13](#): > > My personal opinion, with absolutely no evidence to back it up, is that if Sandy Hook couldn’t change anybody’s mind, no mass shooting will. > [@Max\_S](#): > > You may as well ask a gun supporter how many people must die before they are willing to give up living in a free State. > [@Odesio](#): > > I think part of the disconnect is that many gun owners view the right to own and possess a firearm as a fundamental human right. So if you understand that, even if you don’t agree with it, I think you’ll have a better understanding of why the number of firearm related homicides, or suicides for that matter, aren’t going to convince a lot of gun owners to give up their AR-15s. > [@Sooner](#): > > […] for the majority, no number of mass (or day to day) killings is going to convince them they should give up their right to own guns. If anything, it seems to be the opposite; more of - in this violent society I need a weapon for self-defense. > [@snowthx](#): > > I do not think you will ever convince gun owners to ban guns - that is probably a bridge too far, and I think using mass shootings as justification will not move the needle at all. > [@steronz](#): > > Maybe you’re not aware of how hard conservatives have doubled-down on this issue, but the answer to gun violence is always _more guns_ . If mass shootings start happening every day gun sales will skyrocket and Republicans will be falling over themselves to remove all gun restrictions and arm everyone. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > When I hear of a mass shooting, I am extra conscientious about making sure I’m armed when I go somewhere. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Many gun owners hear about mass shootings or violence and think, “See? It’s a dangerous world out there. I need to be able to protect myself and my loved ones.” And they’re going to take a dim view of anyone who tries to take away what they perceive as their power to defend themselves. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And that is why honest law abiding gun owners fight _any_ gun laws, because that is on many peoples minds- a ban, door to door confiscation, etc. > [@Chingon](#): > > There is no serious/effective legislation that gun supporters will allow to pass. Even those who play lip service that they will support Biden’s suggestions think the suggestions are pointless or are actually against them when they read the details. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > How many people need to die before you’ll support banning alcohol? […] > > What if I came to you with a news story every time it happened? What if we covered DUI deaths like we do mass shootings? What if I showed you a picture of a cute family every day and say “the 5 year old is dead, the mother is dead, and the father is in critical condition - all because you think alcohol should be legal… how many dead people do we need before you’ll change your mind?” > > But you won’t change your mind, because you’ve just accepted that it’s going to happen and you’re okay with that tradeoff. […] > > How is that any different from gun owners how gun owners who don’t want to ban guns feel? > > […] > > People willing to accept gun deaths to keep gun legal aren’t thinking any differently than you, there are just personal preference, emotional, and salience factors that make you perceive it differently. > [@Hampshire](#): > > Logical or not, I completely understand that mind set. The more occurrences of mass shootings the more people […] fear, rightly or not, that nutjobs committing these shootings probably never got these guns in a legal manner anyhow. Gun control measures would punish those who follow all the rules in obtaining, owning, using firearms while criminals doing illegal things would just continue doing illegal things getting their hands on guns. > > Their next jump to conclusion is that now the law abiding citizen good guy (themselves) has their last line of defense taken away while the criminals continue to arm up like they always have, illegally. > In the “us versus them” mind set the bad guys suddenly have the upper hand. > [@BrickBat](#): > > ‘SeniorBeef’, that was an outstanding essay explaining the issue in an unequivocally objective and articulate manner. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Raises a glass of bourbon on the rocks to Senor Beef and his post. > [@LivingGhost371](#): > > Absolutely correct, there’s no amount of mass shootings that will change my mind. Besides that I actually believe in constitutional rights, if there’s a mass shooting every day, all the more reason I need _my_ gun for protection. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Gun lovers live in an alternate reality in which every mass shooting actually demonstrates the need for _even more guns_ . It doesn’t matter if there’s a mass shooting every day. The cause is always a lack of guns (and probably somehow Disney is also at fault). The remedy is for every man, woman, and child to be strapped and ready to kill someone 24x7. If you ask how we entered this dark scenario, it’s because we took prayer out of the classroom and let women out of the kitchen. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Anyway, to answer the OP, no. If neither the extraordinary rate of gun violence in the US compared to the rest of the developed world nor the extraordinary incidence of mass shootings has even moved the needle on gun supporters’ views of gun control, I don’t think any further incidents will change their minds. We’ll continue seeing bogus rationalizations like the ones above, and paradoxically, more mass shootings will probably drive up gun ownership even further. **Nuanced opinions** > [@k9bfriender](#): > > IME, the only thing that has ever changed a gun advocate’s opinion is when someone _they_ know or love is harmed by them. > [@Sooner](#): > > My starting position on most subjects is as a civil liberation, and as such I supported an individual’s right to own a gun. But Sandy Hook was the breaking point for me; after that it seemed the public good outweighed the individual right. > > But I do think I am the exception; […] > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > No, there isn’t an X amount of mass shootings that would change my mind, **short of some unlikely hypothetical situation where mass shootings became many times more common than they are**. Mass shootings are pretty much the definition of a high-salience outlier event, and I think basing public policy decisions on one’s emotional reactions to rare and unusual events is almost _always_ a mistake. It’s the kind of thinking that has brought us fifteen years of taking our shoes off at security screenings. I’m open to changing my mind on this issue (at least on points #1 and #3, above), but it would have to be on the basis of evidence that tighter gun control laws _would_ work and _wouldn’t_ be so politically costly that they reduced the chances of passing other stuff that I care about more. **With enough mass shootings, gun supporters would change their minds** [crickets] Well, possibly… > [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, sure “a Columbine every single day” would change things, ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/185 "2022-05-16T18:41:47Z")
Well, there was this [one time](https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act) when the NRA advocated for and help pass stricter gun-control laws. Perhaps if more people of color started constitutionally carrying handguns, particularly during an event like Ferguson or a George Floyd protest, gun-rights supporters might reconsider. But probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/186 "2022-05-16T18:49:05Z")
Of relevance, did the Black Panthers perpetrate any mass shootings before June of 1967? It seems they weren’t associated with _any_ shootings (yet; founder Huey Newton would be arrested in October '67 for shooting a police officer; there would be a gunfight with police in April of '68, killing Bobby Hutton). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/187 "2022-05-16T19:06:26Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Most Americans that own guns (myself included) do not care how our statistics compare to other countries. I do care about lowering gun deaths in the United States, but I don’t find comparisons to other countries particularly salient because there are too many cross-variables that make such comparisons both uninteresting to me, typically useful only for scoring cheap political points, and totally useless in coming up with actual solutions. Ideas like “too many cross-variables” is just the standard handwave that happens in American politics. Nobody, when talking about some positive way that America compares to the rest of the world, claims that comparisons are impossible. Only when talking about ways in which the US is failing. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/188 "2022-05-16T19:21:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Of relevance, did the Black Panthers perpetrate any mass shootings before June of 1967? No, I don’t believe so. But the mere sight of Black men with (legal) automatic weapons was certainly enough to force the hand of the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/189 "2022-05-16T19:22:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, sure “a Columbine every single day” would change things, of course. Would it? I don’t think so. We have had a million deaths due to COVID and still can’t get people to mask, distance and vaccinate. Because 'Murica. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/190 "2022-05-16T19:29:51Z")
Nah, that’s certainly not true. Here is a post where I compare some U.S. health statistics negatively in comparison to the rest of the world (this is interesting specifically because you quote and agree with me in that thread) > [@How can we fix medical pricing?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-fix-medical-pricing/949475/76): > > face_with_raised_eyebrow ~Max Any true single payer system is going to either impose cost controls, or see costs spiral hilarious out of control. This was part of the politics around Obamacare “death panels”, a political attempt to scare Americans to the simple reality that part of controlling healthcare costs is making decisions about where money and resources should not be spent. Again, I’ve made note that I do not believe any dramatic, “flip the switch” moment from moving America from… I don’t have a problem with the general idea of comparing statistics from one country to another and drawing conclusions. But not all statistics are aptly compared, or are aptly compared in the context of particular arguments. I think comparative crime rates are some of the most difficult to draw the sort of conclusions that I suspect gun control advocates would want to draw because there are so many culturally specific factors to crime. I think that’s true for healthcare for example too, but I think less so than crime. I also think crime and gun crime overlap a number of areas in which America just is not that similar to most OECD countries, so choosing to narrow down only on the gun part, creates misperceptions. For example policing in America, which is a component of crime management/statistics, is quite different than in most countries, both structurally, legally, and culturally. As another example, our approach to incarceration and rehabilitation is also markedly different from most OECD countries. As another example, the way we fund our K-12 (aka primary) education, and the wild disparities this creates between school districts, is fairly uncommon in the OECD. Our large population of racial minorities for which there is strong historic racism and discrimination against is somewhat different from most of the OECD–most of our OECD country pals are “Nation-States”, i.e. ethnic nations that formed or primarily make up a specific state. All of them of course have some degree of ethnic heterogeneity these days due to migration, the EU allowing free movement (and most of the OECD is in the EU)–by my count about 27 of the 38 OECD countries are “nation states”, the rest are mostly in the Western Hemisphere, or AU/NZ. Also worth noting the U.S. has a lower homicide rate than several of our Western Hemisphere OECD cohorts–Colombia, Mexico, Costa Rica. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/191 "2022-05-16T19:31:53Z")
I can’t remember the name of the group off hand, but there was a pretty big group of black gun advocates who were showing up in the summer of George Floyd protests, heavily armed, specifically to serve as a show of force in opposition to various white nationalist militias. I think there may have even been several different such groups. I did not notice any significant increase in support for gun control due to it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/192 "2022-05-16T19:47:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > How is that any different from gun owners how gun owners who don’t want to ban guns feel? The difference is that we don’t have 20 examples of countries that have solved the problem of drunk driving. Solved it. Where drunk driving itself is a bizarre outlier that happens a few times a year, and us booze lovers are pretending it’s an impossible problem where the attempt to solve it would ruin our entire way of life. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/193 "2022-05-16T20:25:35Z")
I fully agree. Sandy Hook ended any hope that Republicans would be at all interested in talking about gun control. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/194 "2022-05-16T20:28:10Z")
A comedic but accurate video I think. You start getting a bunch of scary black guys shooting white people and suddenly gun control will be really important. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yJqfNroFp8U/maxresdefault.jpg "The New Face of the NRA | CH Shorts") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqfNroFp8U) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/195 "2022-05-16T20:29:50Z")
It’s too big of a risk for Black people to open carry. I certainly wouldn’t if I were Black. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/196 "2022-05-16T20:31:33Z")
Math. Estimated number of gunowners, about 100M. Then number of NRA members= 5M. I did the calculations up thread. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How is it slur or specious when we have been down this road of gun violence in the US and yet almost no corrective action is taken? And this over decades. Again, you are incorrect. We have explained that many gun control laws have been passed, yet you continue with this idea. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > f 95% of gun owners are normal and sane then why not normal and sane gun laws? We have explained that also, it is rooted in GOP demographics. There really is no use debating with you if you bring up a point, we explain, and you bring up the same point over and over again, like it has not been conversed. Please read the responses before responding. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What isn’t intractable is many of us would be fine with honest effort licensure schemes and other safety efforts. As @SenorBeef says though, many of us have also lived through a lot of dishonest efforts, like the 1994 AWB that **removed basically no guns from the streets** , made life annoying for enthusiasts who commit almost no gun crime, and focused on a number of cosmetic issues that have little to do with reducing gun deaths or making America safer… Right. [quote=“Martin\_Hyde, post:159, topic:964380”] The type of person you are “baffled” by, has virtually nothing to do with the gun homicide problem in the United States…Is there a reason you are spending time and energy talking about the hobbyists who are known to commit almost none of the gun homicides, and not the lower income young males who we know commit most murders, firearm related or otherwise [/quote] The gun homicide problem in America is mostly inner city drug gang shootings. It ain’t the “gun nut” who has a 100 gun arsenal. It is the thug gang member who buys his 9mm handgun from a stawman “dealer” , who of course doesn’t do a background check, etc. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/197 "2022-05-16T20:33:25Z")
People who die for a cause are usually recognized by that cause. Gun owners should celebrate victims of gun violence as martyrs to the Holy Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/198 "2022-05-16T20:33:28Z")
Sad but true ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/199 "2022-05-16T20:34:44Z")
They’re just circumventing the oppressive rules of they tyrannical government. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/200 "2022-05-16T21:14:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Math. Estimated number of gunowners, about 100M. So you estimate that nearly one out of three Americans owns guns… including men, women, _and children_? This seems wrong. Can you show how you arrived at that number? > [@](#): > > Then number of NRA members= 5M. I did the calculations up thread. On what basis do you assume that the number of irrational gun owners is equal to the number of NRA members? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/201 "2022-05-16T21:18:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I can’t remember the name of the group off hand, but there was a pretty big group of black gun advocates who were showing up in the summer of George Floyd protests, heavily armed, specifically to serve as a show of force in opposition to various white nationalist militias. I think there may have even been several different such groups. > > I did not notice any significant increase in support for gun control due to it. So… there was no significant change in attitudes following a news item so obscure that you can’t even name the group involved, or whether it was more than one group? If you can’t even remember what the story was, why do you expect that the public should have formed a response to it? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/202 "2022-05-16T21:22:01Z")
I mean they were on the news decently enough, I just didn’t remember their name. [Not Fucking Around Coalition - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Fucking_Around_Coalition) [What Is the NFAC, & Who Is Grandmaster Jay? | Complex](https://www.complex.com/life/not-fucking-around-coalition-grandmaster-jay-explainer) [What is the NFAC? An all-Black group arming itself and demanding change - CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/us/nfac-black-armed-group/index.html) [The Not Fucking Around Coalition Wants to Protect Black Americans (vice.com)](https://www.vice.com/en/article/3anz38/the-not-fucking-around-coalition-wants-to-protect-black-americans) [Shots Fired as ‘Not Fucking Around Coalition’ and ‘Three Percenter’ Militia Converge on Louisville, Kentucky (thedailybeast.com)](https://www.thedailybeast.com/shots-fired-as-three-percenter-and-not-fucking-around-coalition-militias-face-off-in-louisville-kentucky) [The Many Lives of Grandmaster Jay - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/04/the-many-lives-of-grandmaster-jay/618408/) [Black armed protesters march in Kentucky demanding justice for Breonna Taylor | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-louisville-idUSKCN24R025) [Officer Jason Raynor shot and Othal Wallace now captured. What we know (news-journalonline.com)](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/26/officer-jason-raynor-shot-and-othal-wallace-now-captured-what-we-know/5351548001/) They seemed to get decent visibility in the summer of '21. [Not Fucking Around Coalition - Explore - Google Trends](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=%2Fg%2F11k60tqnyh) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380.md?page=11)