# Is there X amount of mass shootings that would change gun supporters' minds, or is that the wrong way to think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380 "2022-05-13T19:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/103 "2022-05-15T21:19:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Constitutional carry may or may not lower the overall crime rate–my suspicion is it does not meaningfully alter it; but it does **undeniably create more legal possessors of concealed guns who would otherwise not be legal possessors of concealed guns** , which intrinsically means more legal gun possessors will be found to commit gun crimes in constitutional carry States than in States where you need a permit. Well, whom? Felons still can not own or carry guns. Most “shall carry” states require a simple background check, which checks only for felonies. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/104 "2022-05-15T21:23:29Z")
Drug dealers who have yet to be popped for a felony, for example. We can certainly agree many street dealers were carrying firearms (illegally) before, and some are now legally carrying them in constitutional carry states, until they get popped for their first felony they are allowed to exercise constitutional carry like any other adult citizen of their state. It is unlikely many drug dealers ever bothered to get their CCW. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/105 "2022-05-15T21:39:16Z")
I’ll add just one more (I’m quite sure I could find more examples if I were so motivated): > **[PILOTS, NRA URGE GUNS IN COCKPITS IN SEPARATE, AGGRESSIVE CAMPAIGNS](https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2002-07-28-0207280076-story.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/106 "2022-05-15T22:04:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > How many people have died in Colorado since 1999 due to mass shootings? Columbine, Aurora movie theater, Boulder King Soopers. Am I missing any others? If not, I have 37 people who died. > > That’s less than the number of people who die on Colorado highways in 20 days. Are there any other “What about _that_ problem over _there_?” situations we should add to the list? Do we have to solve every other problem on Earth before we even look at the problem of gun violence? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/107 "2022-05-15T22:07:01Z")
More and more the term “legal gun possession” means less and less. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/108 "2022-05-15T23:20:35Z")
Have you ever met a gun owner? Most (not all) are freakish about owning a gun. When you meet them you are hard pressed to think there is anything more important in their life. Not their spouse, not their family, not their community…nothing. Absolutely nothing is more important to them than their guns. It’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/109 "2022-05-15T23:37:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the media is following rather than leading here, though. I think our national myth is a huge part of this – individual, personalized violence (i.e. the mountain men, the settlers going west, the cowboys, the Minutemen, etc.) is intrinsically tied to our national culture and identity in a way that’s different, IMO, than most other wealthy countries. This is true, but it was also true in the 1950s, the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s…where was the constant stream of mass shootings then? It’s my understanding that guns were even less regulated during those decades than they are now, and that at one point you could easily buy guns through mail-order catalogs without ANY form of background check. What did not exist during those eras was the ability to garner instant infamy. Yes, you would make the news. But you wouldn’t immediately dominate the public discourse, fuel online debates and social media frezies, and - as we’re seeing now - be able to broadcast what you’re doing, in real time, to live audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/110 "2022-05-15T23:38:46Z")
There’s a culture of fetishistic bullshit that has been built up around gun ownership nowadays, yes, but you’ve probably met hundreds of gun owners who just never brought it up and so you would never know. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/111 "2022-05-15T23:44:39Z")
Right. The rapidity of the news, and the nature of the internet, seem to have supercharged this phenomenon in some way. I’m not sure what can be done, aside for the very long, very slow task of fundamentally changing the national myth, culture, and identity. I’m in favor of better gun control, but I think this would only change things on the margins. Maybe restricting/limiting certain gun features like magazine size, barrel length, caliber, and semi auto action could reduce body counts, and that could be well worth it, but it wouldn’t change the fundamental problem. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/112 "2022-05-15T23:44:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > “Well, MY guns, sitting in my closet or drawer, have never hurt anyone, so there’s no reason I should give up MY guns no matter how many OTHER people are carrying out mass shootings.” > > Is that…how it is? That there is no amount of mass shootings that will ever convince gun supporters to ban guns? Even if a Columbine every single day? Gun lovers live in an alternate reality in which every mass shooting actually demonstrates the need for _even more guns_. It doesn’t matter if there’s a mass shooting every day. The cause is always a lack of guns (and probably somehow Disney is also at fault). The remedy is for every man, woman, and child to be strapped and ready to kill someone 24x7. If you ask how we entered this dark scenario, it’s because we took prayer out of the classroom and let women out of the kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/113 "2022-05-15T23:49:20Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > We once sacrificed when the nation went to war. Now, I feel like we go to war to avoid having to sacrifice. Can you imagine if Joe Biden asked the public to grow WW2 style “Victory Gardens” to support a war effort? “Sounds more like a SOCIALISM garden to me, yuk yuk. I already done my part, I put a POW/MIA sticker on my truck.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/114 "2022-05-16T00:22:35Z")
But we are not “looking at gun violence” here. I, and other have made reasonable suggestions for ways to reduce gun violence- by keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. That would significantly reduce gun violence. And it could be passed into law. However, instead, people are worried about so called “mass shootings”, getting rid of "assault weapons’ and in at least one case- repealing the 2nd Ad and confiscation the guns. Mass shootings, unless defined so broadly as to include gang shootouts 🙄 are not a significant issue. They are just something the media loves to report. Assault weapons are not the issue- they account for less than 2% of gun homicides. And repealing the 2nd is totally, completely impossible, and so is mass gun confiscations. ’ So people _don’t_ want to solve the problem of gun violence. They want to come up with either useless or ridiculous ideas. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Have you ever met a gun owner? > > Most (not all) are freakish about owning a gun. > > When you meet them you are hard pressed to think there is anything more important in their life. Not their spouse, not their family, not their community…nothing. Absolutely nothing is more important to them than their guns. Have you? There are maybe 100 million of them, more than trump got votes. Few fit into your little idea. A lot of them vote Democratic, and are in favor of reasonable gun control, gun control that keeps guns out of the hands of criminals. Now yeah, there are the hard core gun lovers, just like hard core muscle car owners or other hobbies. They belong to the NRA. There are about 5 Million of those. I suppose those 5 million, mostly do fit into your concept of a gun owner. That is about one gun owner in 20. 5%. 5% is not “most”. 🙄 Hell, 5% of Democrats are likely nutso communists. But only the GOP thinks we all are. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Gun lovers live in an alternate reality in which every mass shooting actually demonstrates the need for _even more guns_ . **No they don’t**. Maybe NRA members do. 5% of gun owners. You two are tarring with an awfully broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/115 "2022-05-16T00:29:34Z")
In my experience this is not accurate, there’s literally some 150 million gun owners in America, I find one’s personal experience with them to be relatively uninformed regardless of how many–even in extremis one couldn’t have interacted with more than a small portion of one percent of them. Considering many polls show that a majority of gun owners, even NRA members, support stricter gun laws. Like much of American discourse the dominating tone is set by extremists. [Most Gun Owners Support Stricter Laws—Even NRA Members | Time](https://time.com/5197807/stricter-gun-laws-nra/) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/116 "2022-05-16T00:31:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right. The rapidity of the news, and the nature of the internet, seem to have supercharged this phenomenon in some way. I’m not sure what can be done, aside for the very long, very slow task of fundamentally changing the national myth, culture, and identity. I’m in favor of better gun control, but I think this would only change things on the margins. Maybe restricting/limiting certain gun features like magazine size, barrel length, caliber, and semi auto action could reduce body counts, and that could be well worth it, but it wouldn’t change the fundamental problem. Per capita violent crime was higher in the past even with the recent increase in crime, and while the dramatic “spree shootings” of the news media’s dream weren’t quite as common, they were still a common occurrence, they just didn’t tend to get feverish news coverage that covered the airwaves 24 hours a day. Remember before 24 hours cable news you had a news hour once a day on the networks and a few shorter “bulletins” at pre-set times throughout the day. No one needed to fill air with literally dozens of hours of someone bloviating about the great new crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/117 "2022-05-16T00:32:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have you? There are maybe 100 million of them, more than trump got votes. Few fit into your little idea. A lot of them vote Democratic, and are in favor of reasonable gun control, gun control that keeps guns out of the hands of criminals. > > Now yeah, there are the hard core gun lovers, just like hard core muscle car owners or other hobbies. They belong to the NRA. There are about 5 Million of those. I suppose those 5 million, mostly do fit into your concept of a gun owner. That is about one gun owner in 20. 5%. 5% is not “most”. 🙄 I have met people with lots of hobbies. None are as freakish about their hobby as gun owners. Further, if 95% are “normal” why is it that 5% have absolutely crushed and dominated legislation around gun control for decades? I mean…it’s not even close. Dominated barely covers it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/118 "2022-05-16T00:42:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Further, if 95% are “normal” why is it that 5% have absolutely crushed and dominated legislation around gun control for decades? I mean…it’s not even close. Dominated barely covers it. That’s how America works. Explain how 52% of Republicans polled in a 2018 Fortune poll said they supported Roe v. Wade remaining on the books (some of them pro-lifers, who basically don’t want the status quo changed.) Meanwhile Republican elected leaders are literally getting rid of rape and health of the mother exceptions to abortion, which were actually present in most States before Roe (including very conservative States in the Deep South.) The point being the more loud and extreme you are the **more likely** your position will dominate other positions, even if you represent a relatively small slice of the electorate. Our current politics rewards extremism and immoderation. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/119 "2022-05-16T00:44:30Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Explain how 52% of Republicans polled in a 2018 Fortune poll said they supported Roe v. Wade… Which make 48% opposed. That is waaaay different than 5% controlling the national narrative and laws. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/120 "2022-05-16T00:51:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have met people with lots of hobbies. None are as freakish about their hobby as gun owners. > > Further, if 95% are “normal” why is it that 5% have absolutely crushed and dominated legislation around gun control for decades? I mean…it’s not even close. Dominated barely covers it. I am a gun owner. I own an old single shot .22 my Dad gave me and my service pistol, yet, here I am arguing for stricter gun controls. You seem to be talking about those 5% of NRA dudes, who, I admit, are very vocal. No, we have had tonnes of gun control laws passed in various states. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The point being the more loud and extreme you are the **more likely** your position will dominate other positions, even if you represent a relatively small slice of the electorate. Our current politics rewards extremism and immoderation. Right. And calling all gun owners as fanatics is like calling all drinkers alcoholics, After all, about 10% of drinkers are. So, let’s just tar them all as alkies and drunk drivers. 🙄 > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That is waaaay different than 5% controlling the national narrative and laws. But they aren’t. The GOP simply won’t pass _any_ gun control or _any_ voter rights or _any_ abortion rights or climate laws or anything the people generally want. If Biden and the Dems want it, they will oppose it. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/121 "2022-05-16T00:57:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But they aren’t. The GOP simply won’t pass _any_ gun control or _any_ voter rights or _any_ abortion rights or climate laws or anything the people generally want. If Biden and the Dems want it, they will oppose it. Period. As @Martin_Hyde said abortion rights are close to 50/50. I am not sure about climate regulation but probably 60/40(ish). Then you have gun regulation which you said is 95/5. Are we really ok with that minority having such dramatic control? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380/122 "2022-05-16T00:59:13Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Considering many polls show that a majority of gun owners, even NRA members, support stricter gun laws. Like much of American discourse the dominating tone is set by extremists. At best they give lip service to wanting stricter gun laws, but on those rare occasions when stricter gun laws are actually proposed they back off and let the gun lobby extremists have the podium. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-x-amount-of-mass-shootings-that-would-change-gun-supporters-minds-or-is-that-the-wrong-way-to-think/964380.md?page=7)