# Is this a common car salesman's scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717 "2003-04-14T19:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/21 "2003-04-18T06:05:29Z")
I bought a new Honda Accord in 2000. I brought them a print out from [carsdirect.com](http://carsdirect.com) and told them that I wasn’t willing to pay a single penny more than that price. The whined a bit and tried to add a $250 delivery charge but I wouldn’t back down. I got the car at that price and they hated me. The initial value that was quoted to me before I told them about my printout was a thousands more. Best of all, I got 3.9% Honda financing so my payments were actually less than if I bought it online. Haj ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/22 "2003-04-18T07:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mapsmith \* > \*\*Another trick that they are using out here in the desert. The Salesmen stay in the building (or right in front of it) waiting for you to come get them. At that point, they KNOW you have found a car that you LOVE, and that they can basically ignore any reasonable offer and say that the price is firm. \*\* That price will only remain firm as long as the customer remains interested in the car. You just have to let them know - and make them believe - that you’re perfectly willing to walk off the lot and take your business elsewhere if the price is not to your liking. And do just that. If you threaten to walk away, and then don’t, they know they’ve got a sucker on their hands. If you walk out and they actually let you go, rather than making a new offer, then you know that you’ve probably aimed too low and that your price is unreasonable. Because no car salesperson will let you go if there’s even the slightest chance that a buck can be made on the deal. It’s often good to try and buy the car at the end of the month, because you can often find a salesperson who needs one more sale to put him or her over some magic bonus number, and they will be much more open to dropping the price as far as possible. For example, when i was selling cars the dealership had a special bonus one month. Anyone who sold 15 cars that month (it was a small dealership) got a bonus of $1000 on top of his or her regular salary and commission. In cases like this, if it’s the 29th of the month, and you’ve sold 14 cars, then you know that selling one more car will put a grand in your pocket, even if you don’t make a cent off that particular sale. So you’re willing to discount the shit out of it just to make up the magic number and get the bonus. The OP’s first example, where they offer you what seems like a good deal and then come back later and claim that they made a “mistake,” is a common scam. But it’s also a very easy one to deal with. All you have to do is say: “Well, i would have bought have bought the car at that price, but what you’re quoting me now is unacceptable.” And walk out. Forget the few hours you’ve wasted having your trade-in appraised and taking a test-drive. One of the things that the car salesperson relies on is that you will not want to go through the whole process again, and so will take the new, crappy offer. Just remember that it’s worth spending another few hours to save money. If going to another dealership costs you another four hours but saves you $1,500, then surely it’s worth it. I know we’ve got a few highly-paid Dopers on this Board, but i can’t imagine that too many of us clear $375 an hour, which is what this works out at. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/23 "2003-04-18T14:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*I’d recommend you read [Confessions of a Car Salesman](http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html) from [Edmunds.com](http://Edmunds.com). > > It’s the story of a reporter who worked as a car salesman for several months at two dealers, including one that tried many of the scams you describe. \*\* That may be the greatest series of articles I’ve ever read. Unfortunately, I have now lost all faith in our species. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/24 "2003-04-18T15:07:52Z")
The last time I bought a car, I went armed to the teeth with data. I had the dealer cost on the car I was interested in, and a pretty good approximation of the value of my trade-in, both found on the 'net. After they had looked over my trade and made me an offer, I took the numbers, and revised it as follows: The total cost of the vehicle, plus what you are willing to allow the dealer ($300 is reasonable), less the value of my trade, gives the amount that I need to fork over. They took the sheet, and confered about it, came back with their invoice (which was pretty close to the value I had from the net), a minor adjustment on the value of the trade due to one defect that I had overlooked, and asked for $500 for themselves. The total changeover cost was over $1500 less than what they had initially proposed. At that point, everyone’s cards are on the table, and you can wrangle as much as you want over their share. If you want to be hardass and try and get them down to $100 or less, you can go for it; if on the other hand you want to be easygoing and give them what they are asking for you can at least leave the table knowing that you did not get totally screwed on the deal. (By the way, I would assume that, with manufacturer’s kickbacks and so forth, the dealer can still make money even if they let the car go for a nominal $0 dealer cut. Their accountants are even more creative than the ones who work in Hollywood!) ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/25 "2003-04-18T16:20:58Z")
We paid cash for both of our last two cars. It made the dealing a lot easier, but I don’t think the salesmen were that thrilled or impressed. Less opportunity to make money on the financing. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/26 "2003-04-18T16:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \* > \*\*(By the way, I would assume that, with manufacturer’s kickbacks and so forth, the dealer can still make money even if they let the car go for a nominal $0 dealer cut. Their accountants are even more creative than the ones who work in Hollywood!) \*\* That’s certainly true. When you really squeeze the last drop out of a deal, it’s generally the salesperson rather than the dealer that get screwed. While i spent an earlier post slamming salespeople, i think that we should realize that, in many cases, they are themselves the victims of a bad system. In the “Confessions of a Car Salesman” article that **Billdo** linked to, Chandler Phillips spent a few months working as a salesman, and while he continued to be critical of the tactics of many salespeople, he also realized that much of the responsibility for the car industry’s poor image lies with the dealers and managers. From [Part 8](http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/page008.html): > [@](#): > > So, you think I’m romanticizing car salesmen? Trying to clean them up and excuse their evil ways? And, you might ask, if the salesmen aren’t the bad guys, who is? > > Having been a salesman myself, I began to view the managers and dealership owners as the real culprits. While salesmen play people games with the customer, the guys in the tower work the numbers with computers, their eyes fixed on the bottom line. They can see at a glance what kind of profit they are taking from the customer and they do it any way. Furthermore, they bully the sales staff, encouraging them to manipulate, control and intimidate customers while they take the lion’s share of the profit. > > Sometimes, the profit a salesman generates is not even pocketed by them. One salesman told me the F&I people can work their magic to rob a salesman of his commission. They move front-end profit to the back end where it evaporates from the salesman’s voucher and returns, over the years, to the dealer in the form of high interest and steady payouts. I experienced a little taste of this myself. I leased an SUV to a single mother and at sticker price expected a nice commission. But on payday I cashed a $65 check. No explanation. No hint of where my commission had gone. > > The management pushes the salesman out the door, lets him meet and greet the customer, then takes the profit. Not only that, but the management also blames the salesman when something goes wrong. I saw this quite clearly when the TV news team did its hidden camera investigation of the dealership (more on this in Part 6). A salesman was made out to be the bad guy. When the camera was turned on the dealership owner he disavowed knowledge of what was happening in his business and promised a complete review of their practices. This, despite the fact that at Friday sales meetings, the owner was cheering the boys on to get more deals at a higher profit. Again, like Phillips, i don’t think that this completely excuses the behaviour of many salespeople. but i do think that it mitigates it somewhat. People need to be able to pay the rent and put food on the table, and to do this they sometimes do jobs that are rather unsavoury. I tend to feel about car salespeople the way i feel about telemarketers - i don’t like the way they work, but i blame the industry as a whole for the problems, and i’m not willing to condemn those individuals for trying to hold down a job. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/27 "2003-04-18T16:59:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*We paid cash for both of our last two cars. It made the dealing a lot easier, but I don’t think the salesmen were that thrilled or impressed. Less opportunity to make money on the financing. \*\* Actually, the salesmen probably didn’t care, because the most car dealership commission structures exclude the finance profit when working out the salesman’s cut. The manager and/or the dealership owner, as well as the finance person, certainly would prefer that you finance the car, but the salesman is only really interested in the “front-end” profit on the deal, because that is where the commission comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717/28 "2003-04-18T17:23:45Z")
I suppose one can look at them the way one would look at an enemy soldier: He may or may not be a jerk but the ones in charge have ordered him to kill you so you have to kill him first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-common-car-salesmans-scam/168717.md?page=1)