# Is this a fair Scrabble strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284 "2002-11-11T15:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/21 "2002-11-11T21:16:06Z")
In competition is it a fair strategy? Yes In a friendly game? Probably not. But are you asking for future reference? You said “the strategy point is the one _we’re_ interested in” (emphasis added). It sounds to me as if you’re both looking for a general rule to abide by for next time. In that case, I say in the future, what you did is perfectly fair. As they say, all’s fair in love and war. Scrabble is war. Love…well, you found out the fairness of that last night. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/22 "2002-11-11T21:18:50Z")
I think your girlfriend is either a bad Scrabble player, or a poor sport. Now, if you gloated over the fact that “zits” wasn’t in the dictionary, you’re in the wrong. But if you shrugged your shoulders and said “Sorry!” and she still bitched about it, she’s in the wrong. If she didn’t know the rules regarding challenging a word, and the subsequent rules regarding not challenging an illegal rule, you were a jerk to not take back “zit”. If she did, she’s a completely poor sport. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/23 "2002-11-11T22:17:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pulykamell \* > **It doesn’t strike me as being in the spirit of friendly play, and you’d certainly risk physical injury if you tried such a thing in my neighborhood in Chicago.** Physical injury nothing – I’ve been in neighborhoods in Chicago’s south side where someone would bust a cap in your ass just for trying to trade in letters. Challenging is risky – old school street players don’t even use a dictionary, just a few old back issues of Reader’s Digest. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/24 "2002-11-11T23:07:38Z")
[http://www.scrabble.org](http://www.scrabble.org) has ‘The Official Scrabble Player’s Dictionary, 3rd Edition’ online. > [@](#): > > Let us help you settle challenges during game play > or build words from those difficult tiles! **ZIT** zit zits \ n pl. -S a pimple ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/25 "2002-11-11T23:28:29Z")
[quote] So I didn’t get any last night, even though she eventually won the game by four points. [/qupte] Sounds like you managed to lose twice. And you think this might be a good strategy?? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Damage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@Mister\_Damage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Damage)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/26 "2002-11-11T23:29:54Z")
**Munch** , I disagree that **Gassendi** ’s girlfriend is being a poor sport. Even though the tactic adheres to the letter of the rules (the illegal play was not challenged, and therefore stands), it is morally questionable. Unless there were other extenuating circumstances which had already made this game a “grudge match,” I imagine that she went into the game with an expectation of good faith play on **Gassendi** ’s part. **Gassendi** played a word which he _knew_ was unacceptable according to the dictionary they were using. (He admits as much in the OP.) He intentionally made an illegal play, because he thought that he could get away with it (which he did, at least within the context of the game). (As to the argument that it wasn’t an _illegal_ play just because the girlfriend didn’t challenge it, the [official Scrabble rules site](http://www.hasbroscrabble.com/pl/page.rules2/dn/home.cfm) states that “The second player, and then each in turn, adds one or more letters to those already played to form new words.” It also states that “If any word is unacceptable, then the entire play is unacceptable.” **Gassendi** played a word which was unacceptable by the dictionary they were using, and as such, did not “form new words” on his turn – I’m assuming here that “zit” was not the first word of the game, although it is not explicitly stated in the OP.) Were this a no-holds-barred tournament game, where there were money or prizes riding on the outcome, it would perhaps be understandable. But this was a (presumably) friendly game with his _girlfriend_. That he would feel the need to employ such deceptive tactics just to try to win a game of Scrabble undoubtedly makes his girlfriend wonder where his priorities lie. It also probably makes her wonder what else he would do if he thought he could get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![ski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@ski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ski)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/27 "2002-11-12T00:21:00Z")
Morally questionable? Give me a break. I’ve placed “words” which I knew weren’t words on the board before, and sometimes they’re not challenged. To me, that’s all part of the fun of the game! And yes, this is all in social, friendly, casual games. If it happened to me, I’d laugh it off and chalk it up as a bad mistake or my part, not challenging it. Heck, when I’m visiting my parents and play scrabble against my mom, half the goal of the game is to see what you can get away with! It’s good fun, and anyone who is going to get actually, genuinely upset by this really needs to realize that it’s just a GAME! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Damage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@Mister\_Damage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Damage)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/28 "2002-11-12T00:56:18Z")
Right. It’s just a GAME! …so why do you see the need to cheat? ---
**Author:** ![agroof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@agroof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agroof)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/29 "2002-11-12T01:06:23Z")
Chivalry in a Scrabble game? For Zeus’ sake! I’d have little respect for a man who would intentionally let me win a competitive game to be chivalrous. Personally, I think **Gassendi** ’s girlfriend should be grateful. She’ll be a more astute player in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/30 "2002-11-12T01:16:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mister Damage \* > **Gassendi** played a word which he _knew_ was unacceptable according to the dictionary they were using. (He admits as much in the OP.) He intentionally made an illegal play, because he thought that he could get away with it (which he did, at least within the context of the game). > [@](#): > > Right. It’s just a GAME! …so why do you see the need to cheat? “Illegal” play? “Cheat”? So, if you’re playing poker with somebody, and you know the hand you’re holding wouldn’t beat a pair of twos, you should just fold immetediately, right? It would be “cheating” to try and pretend like you’re sitting over there with a royal flush in the hopes that the other guy, who actually has a better hand than you, just gives up and folds. And don’t even get me started about those larcenous baseball players, always “stealing” bases! The way I’ve always played Scrabble includes bluffing. You play a word, maybe it’s really a word, maybe it isn’t–the other guy (meaning my dad) has to decide if he wants to risk his turn or not. Of course, I’m also risking _my_ turn by playing a word if I’m not completely sure is really a word. Them’s the rules, at least in the Buckner household. (We also keep our dictionaries up to date, so both “zit” and “zits” would be legal words.) I agree that you should be sure to explain all the rules clearly to a novice player, probably play a few games where you explain things and point things out as you go along. And it’s not very nice to just sit there and try and run up some new personal best score against an utter newbie. (But judging by the outcome it was evidently a close, competitive game.) Of course the psychological dynamics of playing a game against a wife/girlfriend/lover are different than playing against a buddy or a sibling or your dad. Perhaps **Gassendi** and his girlfriend should find some game where they can play together as a team against other people. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/31 "2002-11-12T01:20:42Z")
Man, I’m glad I’m not invited to “Game night” at some of your houses. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/32 "2002-11-12T01:23:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d have little respect for a man who would intentionally let me win a competitive game to be chivalrous. My dad has never “let me win” playing Scrabble or any other game. He also taught my mom’s baby brother chess–he never let my uncle win either. So, when my uncle finally _did_ get to the point where he could beat my dad, he knew he really had won, and that he really had learned to be a good chess player. And when I win a game against my dad, I know it’s because I’m a good Scrabble player–and I know he’s a good Scrabble player too, because he beats me about as often as I beat him, and winning against somebody who’s also a good player is a lot more fun. ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/33 "2002-11-12T01:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > “Illegal” play? “Cheat”? So, if you’re playing poker with somebody, and you know the hand you’re holding wouldn’t beat a pair of twos, you should just fold immetediately, right? It would be “cheating” to try and pretend like you’re sitting over there with a royal flush in the hopes that the other guy, who actually has a better hand than you, just gives up and folds. And don’t even get me started about those larcenous baseball players, always “stealing” bases! Well said, **MEBuckner**! Bluffing is part of a good game of Scrabble. The rest of you who play it otherwise are missing out on a lot of fun. That said, if my girlfriend took it all that seriously, I’d conclude that maybe we’d best stay away from games involving bluffing, secret plans, or generally being sneaky. Because she just won’t “get it”. That’s unfortunate. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/34 "2002-11-12T01:52:20Z")
Yeah, what **MEBuckner** said. I’ve never agreed with the idea of “dirty pool”. It’s either in the rules, or not. It’s a competitive game, you play your knowledge of the rules to your advantage, and never patronise somebody by going easy on them, or letting them win. A question though: is there some supreme list of acceptable dictionaries in Scrabble? I know I could use the Macquarie Dictionary in play with the average Aussie, and they would probably accept its ruling. Is it ok to have an Oxford, Macquarie, and a Webster’s, and dip into whichever is convenient? Can I play both “color” and “colour”? Is there a One Dictionary rule? ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/35 "2002-11-12T02:06:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there a One Dictionary rule? Word of advice: **never** start a Scrabble game without first agreeing on the dictionary (-ies) that will be considered authorative for that game. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/36 "2002-11-12T02:08:40Z")
There will be plenty of sex in the future, but that game can only be played once. Good show **Gassendi**. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/37 "2002-11-12T02:12:57Z")
Um, I got some today. So I guess we can stop arguing… 🙂 But I doubt I’ll get away with that little gambit again now that she’s wise to it. Interesting debate in this thread. Sometimes I’m surprised at which threads will take off and which won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/38 "2002-11-12T03:00:37Z")
My old boyfriend used to do stuff like that when we played Scrabble. It was like he had to win every game. (I never much cared whether I won or not, but then I’m not very competitive.) I always thought that he must be really insecure and kind of jerky to want to win so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/39 "2002-11-12T04:24:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mister Damage \* > \*\ ***Munch** , I disagree that **Gassendi** ’s girlfriend is being a poor sport. Even though the tactic adheres to the letter of the rules (the illegal play was not challenged, and therefore stands), it is morally questionable. Unless there were other extenuating circumstances which had already made this game a “grudge match,” I imagine that she went into the game with an expectation of good faith play on **Gassendi** ’s part. > > **Gassendi** played a word which he _knew_ was unacceptable according to the dictionary they were using. (He admits as much in the OP.) He intentionally made an illegal play, because he thought that he could get away with it (which he did, at least within the context of the game). > > (As to the argument that it wasn’t an _illegal_ play just because the girlfriend didn’t challenge it, the [official Scrabble rules site](http://www.hasbroscrabble.com/pl/page.rules2/dn/home.cfm) states that “The second player, and then each in turn, adds one or more letters to those already played to form new words.” It also states that “If any word is unacceptable, then the entire play is unacceptable.” **Gassendi** played a word which was unacceptable by the dictionary they were using, and as such, did not “form new words” on his turn – I’m assuming here that “zit” was not the first word of the game, although it is not explicitly stated in the OP.)\*\* You misinterpret the meaning of the rule you quote. If any word _formed by the instant play_ is unacceptable, then the entire play is unacceptable. In other words, you cannot turn OX into OXEN horizontally if the extra N would also turn JERK into JERKN vertically. This is the import of the rule you quote. Once the play has been made and is unchallenged - once a subsequent play is made, that is - the word stands. This is not cheating. Part of playing the game is the process of challenging, with the challenger losing a turn if the word exists, and the player who played the word losing the turn if the word does not exist. Again: no cheating is involved here. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284/40 "2002-11-12T04:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > A question though: is there some supreme list of acceptable dictionaries in Scrabble? I know I could use the Macquarie Dictionary in play with the average Aussie, and they would probably accept its ruling. Is it ok to have an Oxford, Macquarie, and a Webster’s, and dip into whichever is convenient? Can I play both “color” and “colour”? Is there a One Dictionary rule? In the US and Canada, the Official Word List (OWL) is the dictionary of choice for official Scrabble tourneys and clubs. It’s similar to the OSPD3 that you can buy in any bookstore, but it has the dirty words in it as well. In the rest of the English-speaking world, a combination of the British dictionary Chambers and the OWL is used; a word that is in either of them is acceptable. The OWL is only available to National Scrabble Association members, but you can get a program called Lexpert at [www.carolravi.com/Lexpert](http://www.carolravi.com/Lexpert) that lets you look up the validity of any word, albeit without definitions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-fair-scrabble-strategy/136284.md?page=3)